Che - The Movie
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- rafalski0
It's largely based on Che's own writings, Kuzinski. And I read reviews. But I really want to see it.
Just watched Commandante, Olivier Stone's interview with Castro. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0342… I thought it would've been worse for Stone. He even asks some "almost difficult" questions (surely nothing to make Castro nervous). Castro turns out to be a madman grandpa to me in it and Stone's "Natural Born Killers" style of handheld shooting only enhances it.
I really liked how Jsu Garcia portrayed Che in "The Lost City" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0343… which is probably the best feature film I saw on the subject.
- Khurram0
From what i've read, and the trailor itself, the movie doesn't attempt to sugar coat anything. It seems frank in the depiction of those less than palatable aspects of his life you seek to demonise him with.
I'm sure those who idolise him will see what they want in the film, and those who despise socialism, will be bitter that his views are aired in a film that will surely elicit some sort of sympathy. But thats just the nature of his views, they are sympathetic.
Personally, i think there's something admirable in his naive idealism. His sincericty in wanting to relieve the suffering of the poor of South America. But, at the same time, he wasn't exactly an intellectual heavyweight, and his crass depiction in popular culture has created the image of a messianic figure FAR removed from historical truth.
So what? The film's a biopic of an iconic historical figure. At least that what it seems to be. Plus its Steven Soderbergh, one of the best directors around.
- +1 - Although Soderbergh is hit and miss for me (needs a word with himself about Ocean's 12)babaganush
- harlequino0
Soderbergh's a pretty smart director. I hope that he has taken as much of an objective approach to the material as is possible. Despite what side of the fence you are on with regard to who Che Guevara was and the things he did, and what he did or did not stand for, I think figures like him are interesting enough that you can make a film or tell a story about them and it's not automatically a glorification of their life and deeds.
- caput580
It is easy to misunderstand a "perpetual revolutionary" Che was. On the other hand Fidel is something else and the two are often overlapping through history so things get attributed to both or one of them in a wrong way. I grew up as a communist and I am a member of the Communist Party since the age of 16, that is over 25 years now (yes I'm old I know). I still admire Che, and as far as negative criticism goes, capitalism has rarely if ever produced an independent thinker and "doer" like Che was.
Gracias por todo, comandante.
- I recommend living in Communism then. Not sure about NK, but I heard Cuba naturalizes foreigners easily.rafalski
- I was about to move to Cuba a few years ago, really, but I decided to stay put and work on a revolution.caput58
- Where it is needed. Palestine for instance.caput58
- Ha, I'd rather you stay in Palestine and fight the good fight there caput!Khurram
- Me too. It is needed here. Thanks.caput58
- joseprieto0
is it better than motorcycle diaries ???
- OSFA0
Finally watched it last night and I'm not gonna get political. Instead, I wanted to share that Benicio Del Toro's performance is excellent. That's it.
- rafalski0
"Personally, i think there's something admirable in his naive idealism."
He introduced communism to Cuba, under a spell of Soviet Union achievements. By late 50's it was known for decades this was the system that had murdered multiples of what Hitler ever managed to kill.
Idealism? Yes, and if he wasn't dumb, it seems obvious he was completely loco.
It sure can be fascinating. A realistic movie on Che the mad killer he was - that story has great potential.- how about a realistic movie on how many people were killed by capitalism or in the name of...caput58
- 'multiples of what Hitler ever manged to kill'.Come on man! - they didn't even have the efficency to despach like the Nazis!babaganush
- Nazisbabaganush
- Ukrainian Genocide, this is just the tip of Soviet count:
http://www.faminegen…rafalski - Vietnam War
http://en.wikipedia.…caput58 - We're getting ridiculous with this, but you can't top this:
http://en.wikipedia.…rafalski - Bush belongs to the same hall of fame with Che, Hitler or Stalin. But just compare living in these 3 countries, where's some freedom?rafalski
- we can play :)
http://en.wikipedia.…caput58 - we can play.. yet you started this "comparing death counts" game?Khurram
- The Indians were killed by catholics, not capitalists! And unknown viruses they brought..
..and over a few centuries :]rafalski - haha, you nit-pick one side, and generalise the other. This is how death statistics work...Khurram
- Statistically, commies did in 100 million per century.
Then.. you sure they called it capitalism in 1492?rafalski - Another thing worth noting, communism targets their own people.rafalski
- mmm, yes, "statistically". So do Belgians in the Congo count as capitalism?
http://en.wikipedia.…Khurram - http://en.wikipedia.…Khurram
- "communism targets their own people." Well, you can say that about any sort of totalitarianism.Khurram
- well, you can argue on when it counts as capitalism or not, but who still has "in god we trust" on their money?caput58
- and yes, belgian congo is pure capitalism even if not labeled as... app. 10 million people!caput58
- prolly closer to 20million, but whose counting? and why??Khurram
- rafalski0
Thank you for such attentively crafted rebuttal, caput58, but the comparisons you gave don't make your point stronger.
Having a monitored internet we have is as bad as not having any and yet being subject to even more surveillance in Cuba?
Is not being able to to go to an unsafe country (sounds like common sense) as bad as not being able to leave yours at all?
Come on..I don't care what the system is called. What I care for is freedom. Freedom to choose. Todays' western world is no paradise. But you do have options, including opting out. In communism you don't. Freedom comes at the price of responsibility for your mistakes - this is what people don't want and they want the state to take care of them. I still choose freedom over that.
As opposed to majority of people I discuss here with, I have lived in communism. I was 15 when it failed. I like to think I helped it fail, I threw rocks at commie police as a kid..
I have very clear memories of that period. It was a shithole that is hard to describe. It was Kafka'esquely muddy and slimey. It was just as grey as the west pictured it. We were slaves with no option out. In order to be granted a passport (only valid for a single visit, you had to return it immediately upon return) you had to be nice to the police, in many cases sign loyalty letter they could blackmail you with later on.
The worst thing about communism was what it did to people. Corruption, as I wrote about Cuba - was a norm. So was stealing from the system. When everything's everyone's, it's nobody's. This mentality is still there - this is the worst. It spoiled generations.There is corruption in the west of course - but it doesn't affect regular people, only those in power. In communism everyone bribes. I saw bribes handed as a kid on a daily basis, more than once. It was nothing big, just a normal thing.
I speak on Cuba, because I went there to see it myself. My sad conclusion is it is exactly the same type of shithole I grew up in, only the setting and the music are much nicer - so are cigars. The saddest part is you can see in its ruins, it was one of the most beautiful places on Earth before the revolution.
I didn't stay in hotels, only at people's houses. I talked to people. They were curious about post-communist countries as well, so we had a lot to talk about. I saw behaviours that would be hard to explain to someone who hasn't lived in communism. Why are salespeople so rude? I know. I just know, I lived in this. It was all the same, down to omnipresent propaganda posters glorifying the Communist Party and so on.
I saw store vendors blatantly cheat their employer (La Revolucion) and pocket money from sales (I recognized the techniques instantly). I saw groups of people, some in their official uniforms get organized to rob the state as part of their lazy daily routine (funny stories if you don't have to live there). I saw a peanut vendor on the street bribe a police officer, so he doesn't notice the vendor (selling peanuts on your own is illegal). All this in the short time I spent there just walking around and travelling.
I didn't see a happy adult person, even if they were dancing on the street. I did see happy kids, little ones.
Teenagers on local buses.. this was the hard part. They looked at me with the same eyes I had looked at random (rare, though) foreigners when I was a kid. I used to be the same teenager. I knew the feeling they expressed. It wasn't envy exactly.. it was a very sad feeling foreigners come from a different world you're not allowed to access, where being able to travel the world is part of normalcy.I never said western world lifestyle was the perfect solution, it is quite fucked up. But proposing communism instead is going out of the fire right into a frying pan.
Every American has an option to leave the country and a way to earn enough for the ticket. Cubans don't. This alone is a world of difference.
- PIITB0
any trailers?
- Khurram0
Excuse me, you seem to be confusing Soviet-style economic policies of 5-year plans and collectivisation of agriculture, with the blood thirsty excesses of Stalinism and Stalin's purges.
He was heavily critical of the Soviet Union, which is what led to his falling out with Castro. He denounced the USSR in a speech given in Algiers in which he expressed his view that the Northern Hemisphere, led by the US in the West and the Soviet Union in the East, was the exploiter of the Southern Hemisphere.
If anything, he was an anti-imperliast before he was anything else, and shunned the comfort and trappings of state power to fight for, what he perceived as, other people's freedom.
- GeorgesII0
what makes it great?
- its greatnessset
- Che is in it.. and hipsters love che.. right?autoflavour
- akrokdesign0
nope, haven't see it yet. :-)
- ukit0
Commies
- meffid0
.torrent? ;)
Anyone see GONZO? That was actually good.
- i saw gonzo on muppet christmas coral. phenomenol performanceWeLoveNoise
- Lol.dMullins
- I have it on living room right now, I might watch gonzo tonightMeeklo
- rafalski0
Yet he wanted to name his son Vladimir, after V.I. Lenin (in 1955 as far I remember).
Castro wasn't even a communist until he realized Kennedy was not going to be friends with him.
- OSFA0
Not yet, but I want to and prob will. When does this movie come out?
- Khurram0
haha, Yeah, fucking hell, that's like name your kid Hitler.
- No, Hitler doesn't hold a candle to Lenin's death count.rafalski
- BOLLOX!Khurram
- http://en.wikipedia.…
You might be right. I lost count.rafalski - I AM right. Lenin killed a few, mainly due to failure economic policies and because heKhurram
- was fighting a civil war started by the right (the Whites). He even experimented with democracy, aww, his heart was in teh right placeKhurram
- in the right place. But Hitler, he came to power on a platform of extermination. Qualitatively differentKhurram
- i'd say.Khurram
- Lenin killed a few - "millions". I know, these small side notes don't let you write all the words.rafalski
- yes, but, in a war? in a revolution? in a civil war? its a BIT different to the Nazis state extermination machineKhurram
- JG_LB0
reminds me of bush
