God is quite busy
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- designbot0
Ukit, you left out the verses that proceed those you posted from Ephesians....very important to see the real message....
"husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body"
- gramme0
Scripture does make distinctions in the roles which best suit men and women, because gender is much more than skin deep. The Bible teaches that in the context of marriage, a man must lead his wife in a way that is gentle and considerate of her needs and desires, that fulfills her as a woman. Paul uses the example of Christ, who sacrificed his own desires for his bride, the church. It says that a woman must love her husband by respecting his leadership. He says that as the church submits to Christ as its head, so wives should submit to their husbands. The HUUUUGE caveat here is that if a man abuses his role as leader, then he ceases to be a leader worth following. Ephesians 5 goes into this subject at length, and ends with the common exhortation that husbands and wives and everyone else is called to submit to one another in love, i.e. to put one another's needs and desires first.
No one is capable of doing these things perfectly of course, but it's something to aspire to. It's the firm foundation upon which my own marriage is built. I don't trust myself to keep us together in the long run. I trust Christ.
- his bride, the church... sorry mate, you lost me here. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar as Freud said.********
- the church as the bride of Christ, and christ as the groom, is a metaphor for our relationship w/ him.gramme
- Jesus talked about it, as did Paul and others.gramme
- creepy********
- Only creepy if you miss what Christ has done for us and that the metaphor goes way beyond our fallen understanding of marriage.teleos
- marriage.teleos
- his bride, the church... sorry mate, you lost me here. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar as Freud said.
- designbot0
^Sure post the biggest radical televangalist in all of Christianity. Are you trying to discredit the message by posting a phony?
- @ TBDdesignbot
- Nope. I respect he ethical framework of Christianity s a valuable viewpoint. Just pointing out that it can and always has been...TheBlueOne
- has been used to mislead tens of thousands by charlatans throughout the centuries.TheBlueOne
- ...you know, shit that's open to interpretation kinda does that. But, no keep telling me that YOU ow what it really says.TheBlueOne
- Because, you know, YOU must be right.TheBlueOne
- Besides, the video IS funny. and we both agree the guy is a charlatan.TheBlueOne
- Yes, discernment is definitely needed. Not sure who is more at fault the phonies, or the people duped.designbot
- I feel sorry for the people duped though. Although I'm not a practicing xtian, I went to a jesuit high school, and those cats are serious.TheBlueOne
- cats will destroy with the logic of god.TheBlueOne
- gramme0
@ ukit: here's the whole passage of Genesis 3 that you reference earlier. It seems both men and women had to suffer physical consequences after the fall. No partiality:
"To the woman he said,
"I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
And to Adam he said,
"Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, 'You shall not eat of it,' cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return."
- Because you have listened to the voice of your wife...so don't listen to her ever again********
- Because you have listened to the voice of your wife...so don't listen to her ever again
- teleos0
Oh how the dishonest and uneducated skeptic loves to rip passages of the bible out of context. This thread is a fantastic example of it.
Nevermind the the passages which elevate the role of women in the early church, the deaconesses, etc...
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
-Gal 3.28
- Don't you have a flagellum you could be stroking somewhere?TheBlueOne
- the early church probably allowed buggery too********
- http://www.instantri…TheBlueOne
- teleos0
Elephant Hurling:
"There is a debate tactic known as ‘elephant hurling.’ This occurs when the critic throws summary arguments about complex issues to give the impression of weighty evidence, but with an unstated presumption that a large complex of underlying ideas is true, and failing to consider opposing data, usually because they have uncritically accepted the arguments from their own side. "
- a fairly good description of what you do... Front loaded dna, try that on a forum full of biologists and not designers.unit7
- It's ok if you don't get it. :)teleos
- the idea is not that hard to grasp, like most fairy tales. It is the critical difference between underatanding the concept and beleiving itunit7
- beleiving it.unit7
- ukit0
@gramme. Well right "he shall rule over you." Couldn't be clearer, and reading the whole thing doesn't change the meaning of that part.
- So in other words, womens' subserviance is punishment for the fallukit
- race, gender, creed, etc... does not make one exempt from the effects of the fall. We all suffer daily.teleos
- The problem here is that people think leadership is more important than nurturing. I just don't think that's true.gramme
- That's why people think the Bible's sexist, because they have warped ideas regarding leadership and submission.gramme
- teleos0
On the role of women:
- DrBombay0
Did you guys figure this out yet? I am trying to pick a religion...
- Apparently there's only One. If you pick wrong you will burn in hell forever. Good luck!TheBlueOne
- thanks!DrBombay
- It's ok, i have flame retardant pants. At least i think they are. They say "retard" on the backlocustsloth
- do you have balls?********
- teleos0
On slavery:
http://www.rzim.org/GlobalElemen…
On sexism:
http://www.rzim.org/USA/Resource…
Context and a basic understanding of ancient cultures is crucial, folks.
- Yes, like knowledge of other religions older than yours.TheBlueOne
- Christianity is a relationship, not a religion. The claims of Christ were unique. It can't be lumped in with the rest.teleos
- context is an excuse to look away from unpleasant things. Besides, context suggests we have evolved. nyah, that can't be riight.********
- The claims of Buddha and Mohammed are equally "unique"? No? I ask rhetorically.TheBlueOne
- They all share a performance-based system of righteousness. In contrast...teleos
- Christianity says we are dead in our sins and can't save ourselves. Only the finished work of Christ can save us via faith alone.teleos
- not sure that makes it right, just saying...DrBombay
- Buddhism & Islam is "performance based"? Huh. Talk about lack of basic understanding...TheBlueOne
- teleos0
It's important to understand that in not violating the freewill of the people He chose, God is not condoning their laws and traditions, re: OT.
- So, if I'm following you here, the Mormons will be burning in hell then?TheBlueOne
- just smite the heathens and take their chattel and goats********
- ukit0
O Mighty God if you are real, show us a sign in this thread right now.
- C'mon. You should never tease ANY deity.TheBlueOne
- your consciousness and the digital code in your cells is enough of a sign.teleos
- Yes a sign that your nuts.TheBlueOne
- DrBombay0
teleos, I know I have said this before but your ideas would go over much better if you weren't such a condescending asshole about them. Gramme could teach you a thing or two.
- I'm a honorary member of gramme fanclub
*waves membership cardTheBlueOne - +1ukit
- It's just the internet, DrBombay. Hey I looked up a word here the other day and realized...teleos
- ...you've wasted approximately 6 years here.teleos
- a christian that insults people, imagine that.DrBombay
- You've wasted you time prostelyzing to people that hate you. Or does that get you a seat closer to our god?TheBlueOne
- Probably, right? Kinda self-centered of you, eh?TheBlueOne
- I'm just playing on your turf! "When in Rome". ;pteleos
- you're a sanctimonious dickhead.DrBombay
- oh don't hate me, I'm just a faceless screen name on the internets.teleos
- I'm a honorary member of gramme fanclub
- gramme0
- *facepalmGeorgesII
- *still twirls mustachegramme
- Well, his karma IS huge. It says so right there.TheBlueOne
- teleos0
fun link here. Responses in bold:
http://www.tektonics.org/lp/pack…
(I love the tektonics site - great resource)
- GeorgesII0
so did anyone prove or disprove the existence of a creator?
- I think so, back on page 6. We're just arguing what color his eyes are and if he's stnding on an elephant or not.TheBlueOne
- gramme0
I am a nameless screenface.
- I don't even know what that meansgramme
- AHHH!!! RUN!!!! A Nameless SCreenface!!!TheBlueOne
- TheBlueOne0
No, I am a nameless screenface!