God is quite busy
- Started
- Last post
- 301 Responses
- TheBlueOne0
"Tired 19th century steamboat era explanations which reflect the intellectual fad of time, will no longer do."
Tired 1st century BC bronze era explanations which reflect the intellectual fad of time, will no longer do.
- Who is giving Bronze era explanations? I'm talking about digital code in the cell, you dolt.teleos
- Unless they were discussing digital code in the cell during the Bronze Age, in which case I wish Darwin had gotten the memo.teleos
- very christlike teleos.spifflink
- Haha TBH! Yes, and lo! He created the world in 6 days! And low did make Adam out of clay and breathed life!Khurram
- how very "scientific" *rolls eyes*Khurram
- ukit0
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
-Richard Dawkins
- gramme0
Richard Dawkins needs to go back and read the Old Testament again. I think he missed *a few* key points about God.
I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who spews such vehemence. It sounds like the man has some deep personal issues. Atheism is one thing, but his particular brand of hate is ridiculous.
- Dawkins is a bit of a dick, isn't he...TheBlueOne
- ayegramme
- He goes a bit far, but it still made me laughukit
- its more a hate of willful ignorance than anything elsespifflink
- Ask Job********
- gramme0
From Ravi Zacharias' site, one of the best Christian apologists, thinkers, philosophers still alive today:
"One currently fashionable pretext for repudiating the God of the Bible is to question his character, especially as He portrays Himself in the Old Testament. In contrast to the allegedly irresistible meek-and-mild New Testament deity depicted by Jesus, the God of the Old Testament is assumed to be a capricious, vindictive, and insatiable Being who exerts prompt reprisals on his enemies upon the slightest of provocations.
Such a reading of the biblical text betrays discomfort with the fact that God is God and that human autonomy must be recognized to lie beneath his sovereignty. Failure to acknowledge this places us in the precarious position of expecting Him to align his interests with ours. Though God is both the foundation of morality as well as the quintessential example of moral behavior, his moral latitude and duties far outweigh ours. Whereas a human being cannot rightfully determine the length of time allotted for another in this world, our Creator has the sovereign prerogative to number our days--a fact we implicitly recognize whenever we accuse others of "playing God." Moreover, without a morally perfect Being responsible for the creation of the universe, we have no grounds for recognizing any act as immoral, so any such pronouncements must be made on the basis of God's moral nature and commands.
Apart from the misconceptions inherent in the above claim, one could also assess the testimony of those who were closely associated with God in the Old Testament itself. Did they think of Him as a vindictive Being? The answer is a resounding no. Examples abound, but let us highlight just a few. Given the choice whether to be punished by God or by his enemies after sinning against God, David replied, "Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men" (2 Samuel 24:14). Jonah preferred to end his life in a treacherous sea rather than take the message of judgment to the Ninevites. His reason? He knew that God is "a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity" (Jonah 4:2). In other words, he feared that God might be too nice to his enemies should they choose to repent.
But Moses provides one of the most striking examples of what those who knew God in the Old Testament really thought of Him. In Exodus 33, God threatens to abandon his plans of accompanying the Israelites to the Promised Land. Since God is faithful, He vows to keep his promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob by giving the land to their descendents. He would send an angel before them to drive out their enemies and the land would still be flowing with milk and honey (Exodus 33:1-3). Did you catch that? They would not even have to fight for the land, and its provisions would still be available. The catch? God Himself would not be among them. Now there's a real jackpot! Imagine the possibilities--having all of God's blessings without God telling you what to do with them! Many popular expressions of Christianity today rarely rise above the attempt to manipulate God into relinquishing his blessings without much regard for God Himself.
But Moses goes into the tent of meeting and says to God, "If your Presence does not go with us, do not send us up from here" (Exodus 33:15)? Is Moses under the spell of a vindictive, malevolent spirit, or has he learned that God is worthy of being loved with all of one's heart, soul, and mind--the Absolute Object of infinite delight? C. S. Lewis was right when he said that he who has God and everything else has no more than he who has God alone. Nothing short of chronological snobbery would make us think that in contrast to God's biblical followers we are better placed to judge the character of God. Biblical saints expected God, the judge of all the earth, to do what is right (Genesis 18:25), and it was not out of delusion that their hearts panted for God as the deer pants for water.
God, who is the same yesterday, today, and forever, is worthy of all our devotion and love. But we must also remember that He executes perfect justice, as both the Old as well as the New Testaments demonstrate. Not only is the innocent, sinless Son of God sacrificed for the sake of sinful humanity, but the just reward of eternal separation from God incessantly sought by those who reject Him is also affirmed in the New Testament. Until the truth of the gospel strips us of all our fleeting fortitude, presenting us before God bereft of any hope outside his mercy and grace, we will never lack excuses for resisting Him."
- lowimpakt0
is that a book review from a magazine?
- DrBombay0
"God, who is the same yesterday, today, and forever, is worthy of all our devotion and love."
And to think, when David Koresh said it, the ATF burned up his crib.
- ********0
I don't believe in evolution.
- teleos0
gramme: you should hear this. William Lane Craig obliterates the central points of Dawkins's book:
http://www.rfmedia.org/RF_audio_…
It's a pretty brief listen.
- ********0
GeorgesII is a moron
- ********0
I was a hardy agnostic until I explored Richard Dawkins theories in print and on some of his TV appearances. It didn't take him long to convince me that there might be something in all this God stuff after all.
- No offence to all you Dawkinians out there but your poster boy is a little flawed.********
- He would rather believe in aliens then God. After his famous quote, I don't see how anyone can take him seriously.designbot
- you mean there is no alien???? designbottypist
- Dunno, but if there is, they were created beings :)designbot
- the bible is one long litany of blood, slavery, revenge, exile, torture. To say otherwise is a lie.********
- you have no idea what your talking about...go back and read the whole Bible and don't take it out of context.designbot
- The history of humanity is one long litany of blood, slavery, revenge, exile, torture. To say otherwise is a lie.********
- are you talking about the 'out of context' quote taken from expelled? ben stein learned his editing techniques from michael moore.spifflink
- moore.spifflink
- No offence to all you Dawkinians out there but your poster boy is a little flawed.
- lowimpakt0
dawkins says he is open to flaws.
he won't burn you at the stake if you disagree with him though.
- ukit0
Dawkins is neither here nor there in the whole debate. He's just one guy. I posted the quote cause I thought it was funny.
- ********0
^ Neither have I been burned at the stake for declaring myself to be agnostic. So that's hardly a point in Dawkins' favor.
- To Lowimpakt.********
- what the hell does that even mean?spifflink
- To Lowimpakt.
- ********0
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
Corinthians 14:34-35
- lowimpakt0
can god have a stance on anything?
surely have a position on something means that you have defined in relation to something else and that may be difficult if you are omnipotent and eternal.
- A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. Leviticus 21********
- A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. Leviticus 21********
- A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. Leviticus 21
- ********0
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Deuteronomy 21:10
- ukit0
*CRICKETS*
- ukit0
See, God meant that part metaphorically. It's only the stuff about gays and abortion that he was really serious about.
- ********0
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
-Richard Dawkins