Baby P's Parents/Killers
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- Fariska0
That's the very reason because a Judgement system exists.
Especially in Britain there is a very well developed guarantee system. And the basic of every moder punishment system is the rehabilitation of the criminal individual to be a "good memeber" of society.
For sure is a tricky thing and there are a lot of imperfections. And i can see the wrath of you all who are parents. But a Judicial system is over the parts for this very reason.
And about the Daily Mail fueled mob, maybe is worth of consideration that the girl who treated this way her son is very likely in the audience that the Daily Mail targets. So are we sure that the problem originates is just criminal parenting or maybe there is something more problematic in the society which originated it?
- 23kon0
Eighty
My "eye for an eye" comment was for voilent crimes in general and not just this case. I agree with SkyPoo, the punishments that are getting dished out for violent crime are not enough as it stands at the moment.
- chossy0
In my opinion we have a duty to rehabilitate but we also have a duty to punish people. Is this the same case where the support workers refused to appologise. Unfortunatly we live in a society which cannot take any responsibility for any mistakes.
Last year there were around 4000 performance reviews carried out by the scottish government, out of which 2 people were told they had to improve.
- SkyPoo0
Following Fariska's post... I also agree that rehabilitation is a vital part of any justice system and the opportunity for an individual to improve their personal standards should be made available to all common criminals. I am all for that.
Uncommon criminals however, the kind of people who have made it into adulthood, have sufficient mental capacity to be able to secure a home and to live independently, to feed themselves and to negotiate life, but who also brutalise their own babies, with wilful and malicious acts of violence that leave an 18month old with a tooth punched down its throat and a broken back - to pick just two very graphic examples out of the 18 months of consistent physical mental and sexual abuse, torture and neglect that the baby suffered - well, those kind of uncommon criminals should not be given the opportunity to be rehabilitated. In my view they have forfeited their human rights and rehabilitation is not a luxury the taxpayer should be expected to fund.
- Khurram0
Christ, it doesn't take much to break a babies back you know. One short sharp karate chop and tha's it.
- "baby's" i mean, lol, how gauche!Khurram
- and that makes it okay does it?????feathers88
- kelpie0
personally I think there is a bigger problem that a guy with known mental problems who is also known to "have a thing for hurting animals" is in any position to inflict that kind of horror on a child. I see no point in hurting him after the fact as a kind of punishment; I don't see what it achieves apart from a cathartic release of, frankly, impotent rage. It makes everyone a savage, rather than a few who should be identified and dealt with. Its a net that there will always be people falling through, but they will fall through it regardless of what revenge the state decides to carry out on them *after* they have committed their crimes. We need a tighter net, and that takes restructuring ad heavily manning and funding our civil services. Obviously though, that'd take high taxation.
These threads sadden me a bit, not because I'm on some pinnacle looking down at the sad little people who feel this way and post accordingly – I have as much of a capacity to feel the neutered anger that makes people want to "hang people by the balls" and "flay" them as any one else, I just don't see the point. Eye for an eye is utterly pointless except to satisfy a hunger for revenge, people who do these things are not subject to "deterrents", burglars maybe, but not sociopaths, or broken people who are twisted up in this way.
Anyway, I clearly hope some terrible fate befalls them, but I'd much rather they just weren't A: in a position to do this in the first place and, B: are never in a position to do it again.
- ps. I think if anyone here were to actually witness or have to inflict the pain they want, they'd quickly revise their position.kelpie
- Well said.Morning_star
- here hereSpanna
- chossy0
Kelpie, I don't think capital punishment is an option, but I do think stripping the offenders life of any meaning is an option. If this person cannot function in society then take them out of society, pop them in a cage and leave them to rot, do not acknowledge their existance as human only feed them keep them warm and alive until such time as they die. Without allowing them the ability to contact society or play any other role in it whatsoever.
- Khurram0
in the olden days women, who psychologists today might say suffered from post-natal depression, used to accuse their babies of being "changelings". They accused satan of having switched their childs with a demonic clone who wasn't their real child.
Common practice was to throw these "changelings" in the hearth fire and if the baby indeed was a demon changeling, then it would scream and start talking and asking to be saved, but if it was real it would simply burn.
True story.
- SkyPoo0
^ I agree with that too Kelpie, and I also pull myself up before I start baying for blood. As much as part of me would like them to know some real inhuman suffering I personally don't think that violence is ever just, even as a punishment for violence. I just don't think they qualify for any humane treatment or compassion. Their punishment should be a cell, the basic means to remain alive (unless they become determined to die) and beyond that nothing. Neglect. They should be neglected and denied any human deceny. We place animals in cages for entire lifetimes for no reason other than for our own benefit, so what stops us doing the same to members of our own species who have behaved so horrifically to innocent baby's?
But that wont happen. Someone will want to tell us a 'poor me' tale about how awful it is for them, and then the kid gloves will come on and they'll be reborn as reformed sinners who deserve another chance. They don't deserve another chance. They spent 18 months consistently destroying that baby and never once felt any remorse. Its not like he died in a fit of anger, or an accident, or becuase the parents were too stupid to care. They had 18 months of enjoyment out of inflicting suffering on that baby and it only ended when they finally went to far and he died.
- Short version: What Chossy says, much better, up there.SkyPoo
- lowimpakt0
i would hate to be a social worker.
- kelpie0
I'm not too far off there, tbh chossy mate, but I think its important also to know as much as possible about the ones we catch in order to stop the ones who are out there before they offend and that means studying them in captivity. To do that may mean treating them in a way that we on the outside might find distasteful considering their crimes, not that I know anything about these things. Its a big bad complicated and compromised world, unfortunately. Human nature, nasty thing.
Anyway, poor kid, can't imagine how a thing like that can happen, how someone can do that to another living thing. I'm out of the debate now, love to all.
- aye good Idea use them to help us, but use them that is all no quid pro quo.chossy
- lowimpakt0
my cousin was a social worker. she ended becomming seriously depressed. She had to walk into the worst situations you could imagine and not be able to offload the issues when she came home from work.
She described her job as "Hello, my name is +++++, I am here to take your child away"
- 23kon0
I take it people watched panorama last night?
Thats the first ive heard of the full story and the timeline leading up to the baby's death.
Shocking stuff !
- chossy0
Indeed lowimpact, my flat mates girlfriend is a social worker and she has to break up families all the time, because the father is abusive etc. etc. it takes it's toll on social workers but this is part of the job I guess, they didn't sign up for a picnic, and todays world seems allot sadder than yesterdays world.
- lowimpakt0
chossy, I think my cousin had difficulty because she couldn't discuss the work with her partner and she struggled to shut things out.
most of us just can't imagine how a mother would torture her own child...
- not being able to talk to people is a shame chatting to people after a hard day is one of the good things in life.chossy
- Khurram0
When the Christian crusaders invaded the holy land and surrounded the city of Jerusalem, they roasted Muslim children on spits and ate them in an effort to demoralise the saracens holding the city.
- This is relevant how?65Neue
- isn't this thread about getting off on the horror?Khurram
- ???????
feathers88
- Khurram0
I had a temp job at the West Yorkshire Probabtion Board doing admin at the reception desk when i was like 18 for a couple of weeks during the holidays.
I used to spend my lunch breaks reading the case histories of some of the people up for probation. Sex offenders and violent criminals etc. Fuck me, did that put me in a depressive mood for the two weeks i was there.
One of the things i read that did make me chuckle was one kid who'd raped and murdered a child (he was only 20 himself) was in a psychology rehab group with other sex offenders, and there was a young un who'd raped an 80 year old, the psychologist had written:
"Inmate X continues to display difficulty in empathising and has behaved insensitively to fellow inmates. During the group session he told a fellow attendee "Yeah, but you did an 80 year old, that's disgusting! That's like shaggin your granny!"
Shun't laugh.
- Khurram0
^ re: kelpie on Africa witch children etc.
I saw an Unreported World piece few weeks back in South Africa about this practice of harvesting human body parts.
Apparently pre-teen boys testicls are higly prised. Gangs roam around and dismember children to feast on their body parts in order to bring them good luck and fortune an dpower etc... The more the person scream whilst you dismember them, the more potent the magic.. Bloody savages!!
- SkyPoo0
^ Saw that too. There was a woman on the documentary who agreed to appear on camera. She had no lips. She had been with her boyfriend in the scrubland having a bit of nookie when a witchdoctor's gang bashed her boyfriend over the head, killed him and took his genitals, then beat her unconcious and began trimming off her lips with tin snips.
She came round half way through and had to lie there without moving while they finished the job because if she had let on that she was alive she would have had to endure having her genitals cut off as well. Alive. Imagine lying motionless while someone cuts your lips off with tin snips.
Body parts cut from the dead have less power, see.