Politics
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- TheBlueOne0
Actually what I took from your quote was this bit - ""We began to recognize each other: those who were loyal to religion and the king took up positions to the right of the chair so as to avoid the shouts, oaths, and indecencies that enjoyed free rein in the opposing camp".
Which basically sounds like the 18th century French version of "We're not sitting next to those dirty fucking godless hippies..."
- ********0
mainstream ruling 'left' in the USA are a sorry excuse for left wing politics
- ********0
Fairy said it, people wanted Obama to challenge the status quo and obviously this hasn't happened. I wonder why anyone thought he was going to anyway.
- And sulking is a great way to ensure nothing will ever change...ukit
- I don't think anyone with brains was betting the farm on it. It was a matter of it being more likely with Obamalocustsloth
- BonSeff0
fairy no doubt plagiarized that quote
- luckyorphan0
I'm a little stunned today...
I've been waiting for one of the more thoughtful conservatives on this site to speak up about the fact that in the last year, we've seen income equality expand to being greater than it was during the Gilded Age combined with the fact that more quasi-third party fundamentalist candidates are being supported monetarily by undisclosed donors thanks to the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court.
When you have people running for office who favor unfettered campaign donations combined with the rich getting richer, you lose the concept of a democracy, and you arrive at a society in which its elected leaders can be bought by those with the most money.
In the meantime, business has had banner profits in the last two years, 2011 will be the biggest bonus year on Wall Street, and no one with the means to help is doing their part to help with the Great Recession.
The conservative response is apparently to keep taxes for the wealthy the lowest they've been in generations, eliminate oversight and vote the people who have stood for greater insight into who is putting money into the pockets of politicians out of office.
In the meantime, these politicians would make it legal to discriminate against kids based on pre-existing conditions, make it possible for insurers to kick people off of their paid plans if they are diagnosed with a disease that is too expensive and make it impossible for parents to keep their kids on their health plans until they are twenty-six.
From where I sit, the responsible, informed voter cannot vote Republican in this election.
- It's called a "banana republic". And we're there.TheBlueOne
- ukit0
"From where I sit, the responsible, informed voter cannot vote Republican in this election."
100% right luckyorphan, but the bigger problem is that the responsible, informed voter simply won't vote. The Dodecahedrons of the world (nothing personal, just riffing off the comments above) will reach the conclusion that "there is no difference" between the centrist Democratic party and the extreme right Republican-Teabagger party and sit this one out.
It's a little like 2000, when the Nader voter would tell you that it didn't matter whether Bush or Gore got into office. "How much worse could this Bush guy possibly be..."
- DrBombay0
GOP Lawmakers Say Oklahoma Ban On Sharia Law Is Not Xenophobic Because ‘We’ Are ‘At War’ With ‘Them’
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09…- ...amazing.luckyorphan
- ...though, Sharia law is pretty fucked up.luckyorphan
- plash0
Israeli settlement freeze end on Sept 30th. will there be another war by the end of the year? http://fastflip.googlelabs.com/v…
- boobs0
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH YELLING IN POLITICS!!! THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM RIGHT THERE!!!
- BaskerviIle0
But to me the real problem is that the right seem to shouting the loudest and swaying people to not give obama a fair chance.
There was so much (for want of a better word) hope when we was elected, now 2 years later that's all washed away already?
He inherited goverment from Bush ferchristsakes, from years of his administration screwing things up and selling it all to his pals. Then there was the massive recession caused in part to bush's activities and administration.
Whoever had inherited government would have been screwed, with so much mess to clear up, plus the mounting mess of the economic crash.sure everyone had high hopes with all his talk of change, but as is always the case, you only really know the extent of the problem until you actually get into government and take stock of what you've been left with by the previous admin.
even with cleaning up bush's messes (including the wars in the gulf) and the economic crisis he's still been trying to put forward one of the best things for americans, nationalised healthcare though most can't see how good it could be, just look at europe, it works, its good and it won't turn you into 'commies'
the right in the US worries me and the idea that they might get back into power so soon, does too.
I wouldn't mind hillary taking over things from obama either if that's the way things went for the democrats.
just promise me one thing......no palin, that shit's not funny anymore
- PonyBoy0
^^Agree so much w/you... just one thing I'd like to stop hearing from the left side of things:
"Obama inherited government from Bush"
No shit. :) That's what happens when you take over the responsibilities of a pre-existing job... right?
If I took a job as a developer for an Agency and knew damn well that their stuff was screwed up - unfinished projects etc etc... ... and 3 months down the road I was crying that I inherited some bullshit... ... well - shame on me for taking the gig... right? What good does complaining about it do?
Learn from it and move on... but stop bringing it up as an excuse - you'd get fired in the real world for that shit.
- very much agree w/you though that the right's not ready to take over so soon - they've got nobody worth a shitPonyBoy
- When used as an explanation, instead of an excuse, it makes sense, and needs to be repeated...luckyorphan
- ...until people give this guy a fair chance to clean up the shit he inherited.luckyorphan
- But right now, people are yelling at a toddler presidency because it hasn't graduated from college yet.luckyorphan
- I hear you - but tell that to the guy / gal w/3 kids who's been out of work a year+ - it means nothing to themPonyBoy
- BaskerviIle0
ok, but if you took that job because you knew you could do it better, bring something different to it... You'd told them that you had some great ideas about how to streamline the workflow, implement all the new features of HTML5 on new projects
Then in the first few weeks, the bosses tell you that your budget for your project has been slashed in half...
and then after 2 months the bosses turn around and say "what happened to all that cool stuff you mentioned in your interview" and your only option would be to say 'I'm still clearing up the mess i was left with, I'm on the case with that new stuff too, just give me a little more time" I think it's legitimate, people just need to remember that, not saying obama should ever use it as an excuse but come on, 2 years is nothing time-wise- Yup. If one guy got eight years to make a mess, the next guy should get eight to clean it up.luckyorphan
- PonyBoy0
but that's not what happened...
Obama and McCain knew quite well that things were going to shit - they were fighting over a solution to the mortgage crisis (Bush's problem (or Barney Frank's and crew - depends on how you argue it)) during the election... recall McCain even wanted to put things election-wise on hold so the country could resolve the issue...
My point is still the same - Obama knew exactly what he was inheriting... it's not like the financial crisis we've been dealing w/was much of a secret before he took office -- instead he campaigned along w/McCain - both begging for us to let them have it.
Same thing w/the two wars - did they not know the U.S. was waging war on two fronts in the Gulf?
- Tru Tru...utopian
- ...kinda. As usual, the Democrats would have worked with McCain, if he was elected. But...luckyorphan
- ...clearly the GOP in congress has no interest in giving Obama any help whatsoever.luckyorphan
- So he's had to take what he could, and compromise a shitload to get it. Bottom line is, give the guy a real chance.luckyorphan
- ...and vote more Democrats into Congress.luckyorphan
- ukit0
But I wonder what else any government could have done...Obama was actually pretty aggressive in fixing the economic crisis.
Let's see, he kept Bush's TARP program going, passed the Stimulus Act (which was mainly about state governments not going completely broke), prevented GM, one of the largest American employers from collapsing completely, gave people a temporary tax cut, extended unemployment benefits for people, and then passed financial regulation to address the source of the problem.
And for all of that, he gets labelled a Socialist, Communist, etc...nice. Or from the left, a tool of Wall Street. So what do people want, total inaction or aggressive steps to fix the problem?
Maybe he could have been even more aggressive like some liberals wanted and passed a bigger stimulus bill. Or he could have sat by and done nothing like some people say the government should have done. Personally I think the hands off approach would have have produced a depression instead of a recession.
- luckyorphan0
Okay, for those—progressives, conservatives and libertarians—who have yet to be convinced that our president is not at least worthy of support, I'll be tossing up the top 75 achievements of the administration since he took office (in no particular order). Let's get the list started with the first 15:
01. Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending
02. Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices
03. Beginning the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq
04. Families of fallen soldiers have expenses covered to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB
05. Ended media blackout on war casualties; reporting full information
06. Ended media blackout on covering the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB; the media is now permitted to do so pending adherence to respectful rules and approval of fallen soldier's family
07. The White House and federal government are respecting the Freedom of Information Act, placing the burden of proof on the government with regards to withheld information. The gov’t must prove why it should not be released, instead of the petitioner needing to prove why it should.
08. Limits on lobbyist's access to the White House
09. Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration
10. Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
11. Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren't even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan
12. Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research
13. Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research
14. New federal funding for science and research labs
15. States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards- The work he has done for the military is particularly compelling...luckyorphan
- i'm not going 1 by 1 and listing my feelings - but you need to understand that a number of folks find some of these itemsPonyBoy
- to be a step backward... ... worthy of scrutiny and even outright distaste...PonyBoy
- One's view of what is 'good' or an accomplishment is arguable depending on your point of viewPonyBoy
- Very true, and quite fair of you to point out. But I do think that this list puts to bed the idea that he's not been effective.luckyorphan
- Of course, I'd be happy to go one by one and address any concerns or misgivings.luckyorphan
- But perhaps this isn't the forum for that.luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
Next batch:
16. Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants) after years of neglect
17. Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools
18. New funds for school construction
19. US Auto industry rescue plan that has led to the overall solvency of the major automakers in the US, and the continued employment of thousands of Americans.
20. $789 billion economic stimulus plan
21. US financial and banking rescue plan
22. The secret detention facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed
23. The US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with the Geneva Convention standards
24. Better body armor is now being provided to our troops
25. The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010
26. Restarted the nuclear nonproliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols
27. Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic
28. Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions
29. Gave the middle class a significant tax cut.
30. US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast
- luckyorphan0
31. Made it illegal for health insurers to refuse coverage to children with pre-existing conditions
32. Announced plans to purchase fuel efficient American-made fleet for the federal government
33. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children
34. Signed national service legislation; expanded national youth service program
35. Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones
36. Ended the previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions
37. Expanding vaccination programs
38. Closed offshore tax safe havens
39. Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
40. Ended the previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back
41. Ended the previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry's predatory practices
42. Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources
43. Lower drug costs for seniors
44. Ended the previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings
45. Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel- 31, 33, 38, 40, 44 & 45 are all winners.luckyorphan
- I agree w/your note... ... all good :) Keep up the education / children stuff - pour all the cash we can into our children 4surePonyBoy
- luckyorphan0
46. Improved housing for military personnel
47. Initiating a new policy to promote federal hiring of military spouses
48. Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals
49. Increasing student loans
50. Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy
51. Established a new cyber security office
52. Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force; this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.
53. Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts
54. Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient
55. Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinanced
56. Improving benefits for veterans
57. Greater openness and media access than previous administration
58. The FDA is now regulating tobacco
59. Ended previous policy of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules
60. Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports
