The Whacko Compartment
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- teleos0
not at all. I am the kind of parent who might say something like, "God loves you regardless of the choices you make. We are all born into sin and separated from a holy God. God must punish all sin, as his standard is perfect holiness. God chose to punish his sinless son, Jesus, in our stead, so that we can have a relationship with Him, as a free gift."
Something to that effect. But don't misunderstand, I'm a lousy parent. Without Jesus, who knows how bad I'd be.
- is she going to hell?********
- if she doesn't receive the forgiveness that Jesus provided, yes. Regardless of lifestyle choice.teleos
- can she receive forgiveness as a lesbian?********
- absolutely. But if she truly receives Jesus and puts her trust in what he has done, things will change for her.teleos
- must punish all sin? his son is sinless yet murdered? I'll pass on the free gift.********
- is she going to hell?
- matt310
gary
- exador10
its always been my understanding that we have in the bible, what amounts to Jesus's actual words...the sermon on the mount, etc...
if someone can find me, ANYWHERE, in the bible where it's Jesus himself saying 'no gay sex' then fine....
but i'm guessing that isn't the case is it?don't bother quoting corinthians this, or psalms that, just show me where Jesus himself said it....
cuz folks...all else is just 'welllllll....i was super close to him, and i KNOW jesus would have seen it my way' type of thing....i just can't buy into that sort of nonsense...
nowadays you'd have someone say something like 'inadmisable in court, hearsay'...or somesuch....either he said it himself, or he fucking well didn't....and if he didn't, then...well.....its not really the word of god is it?....its someone else's word.....and i don't care how high up in the organization of the early church they were...... if it wasn't the Man himself saying it...
as they say here
pics, or it didn't happen ;)
- Even the words in the bible that are supposed to be those of Jesus are written centuries later after word of mouthduckofrubber
- That is false. I strongly recommend you actually study this topic before commenting.teleos
- lackofcolor0
i hope one of you figures out if there is a god or not. i assume qbn is where this will be decided.
i need to know.
- Don't worry empirical evidence is coming.Mimio
- i'll waitlackofcolor
- gramme0
All of Scripture, whether it's red-letter direct quotes from Jesus, history related by Moses, poetry by David, or letters from Paul or Peter:
It's all the word of God. Direct from Him to us. And by the way, Jesus didn't write anything down himself. His story was told secondhand by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. So, the idea of giving more weight to Jesus' words than anything else in the Bible is a wafer-thin argument at best.
- Saying any of it it came from God in the first place is wafer thin.Mimio
- Not if one believes what is written in the Bible.gramme
- Paul said in his letters to Timothy: "ALL Scripture is God-breathed and suitable for teaching, preaching and exhortation."gramme
- exhortation."gramme
- he wrote something in the dirt, Jesus did. That should be lesson enough.********
- gramme0
To further the point exador, the four gospels are not full extent of THE gospel (Old English for "good news"). The entire Bible is the gospel, the good news of God's nature and mission. It's all God-inspired, rather than man-inspired.
I lack pics of course, and can't prove it to you in a scientific court of law. I can use reason to display the consistent character of God throughout both the Old and New Testament, but it's ultimately a matter of belief.
- gramme0
"Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart."
Those who believe are changed inwardly, and it flows outward into the way people live. The process of sanctification involves the sharpening of one's conscience by the Holy Spirit, which leads us to recognize and repent of our sins. The process is life-long and does not lead to perfection this side of eternity. Thankfully, perfection is attained in the next world through our perfect high priest and advocate (Christ).
- ********0
without renouncing her sexual preference?
- ********0
said Plato: be kind, everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
- of course he was no stranger to buggery but had the good fortune to be born before Jesus********
- I'd never heard that quotation and I really like it. Thanks, capsize.blaw
- pleasure mine Blaw********
- of course he was no stranger to buggery but had the good fortune to be born before Jesus
- ********0
without renouncing her sexual preference?
- teleos0
magnificent: The point is that when somebody truly places their faith in Jesus, having understood what He did for us, the holy spirit begins to work in their lives. A process the Bible calls "sanctification". Where our desires become gradually more aligned with his will for us, individually. So, while a Christian can persist in a lifestyle that God does not desire for them, they aren't going to be content or fulfilled and their fellowship with their savior will be strained. Does this make sense?
- so, if she does not renounce her sexual preference, it means christ has not sanctified her?********
- teleos and Igramme
- God does not desire********
- so, if she does not renounce her sexual preference, it means christ has not sanctified her?
- gramme0
Rand, If she doesn't renounce her sexual preference (given that the Bible considers it wrong), then she would be living in known sin. If it goes on for decades, then the implied worldview is that God's law is subservient to that woman's personal preference. Anything that becomes more important than God in the life of a believer is an idol. IF the Holy Spirit has truly changed a person from the inside out, they will eventually desire to confront all of their sin, and become more like God.
So, a gay person who has truly accepted Christ as their savior will sooner or later have to come to terms with the aspects of their life that conflict with God's desires and commands.
I have my own idols that I struggle with, i.e. things that become more important than Christ. Thankfully, there is forgiveness, and thankfully He who began a good work in me will be faithful to complete it.
Bottom line: one cannot serve two masters.
- are saying essentially the same exact thing.gramme
- I've always liked you, but you you place more faith in written words than the heart's truth. You've lost me********
- teleos0
There's an excellent new book out that honest skeptics in this discussion might find very insightful:
- gramme0
Rand I place my faith in God's heart as it has been revealed to us. Not in words that came from the heart of some man or woman. I'm not big enough to save myself; I don't believe any of us are.
Of course, ten people will pile up on this comment and say they are not in need of salvation. C'est la vie, c'est la guerre.
- I am in need of salvation, but I'm not accepting it verbatim from a historical document********
- intellectual contructs are a little too high on your list********
- Nor should you, it should be hammered out upon the anvil of faith.gramme
- Look not within, but rather upward and the truth will deliver itself.gramme
- I humbly disagree, I believe in something that is above logic, not confined to my personal constructs.gramme
- I am in need of salvation, but I'm not accepting it verbatim from a historical document
- matt310
there is no salvation, deal with it.
- < and of course this is a direct quote from matt31, chapter 8, verse 25.gramme
- section bgramme
- subclause iiigramme
- I thought it was from II Hezitations!?teleos
- as translated from Sanskrit into Cantonese into English by a dyslexic 4-year-old.gramme
- it's a direct quote from realitymatt31
- perhaps that is your interpretation of reality. Reality is thankfully bigger than your (or my) imagination.gramme
- no no, it is called a naked assertion. Back to the books with you!teleos
- teleos0
i love naked assertions in the afternoon. :)
- matt310
- http://en.wikipedia.…
Back to the books with you!teleos - garymatt31
- http://en.wikipedia.…
