cops incite violence at summit
- Started
- Last post
- 92 Responses
- TheBlueOne0
Yeah 4cy you're coming across as a tad bit naive here. And it has been all over the Canadian media by the way.
- ********0
what i am trying to say is, it happened quite a few times in the past that people from other organized groups do this. for instance, neo-nazi's have acted in similar ways in the past, also people fom other groups that have interest in protesters being put in a bad light that may organize themselves like this.
let me be clear: it is not the first time this happens.
- sherman0
cheap bullshit tactics by the conservatives.
- Nairn0
"..since a lot of you at newstoday are..". Interesting language, J, guess that means you've finally detached yourself. Well done.
- TheBlueOne0
yet, if i prove wrong then this should get a lot more media attention, since this, in most western countries, is against the law.
4cY
(Aug 22 07, 13:45)
- ********0
infiltration is allowed under conditions, not inciting violence etc.
4cY
(Aug 22 07, 13:45)actually, it's allowed TO THE POLICE on face of "justifiable threat or menace to disturb public order" in most EU countries i believe.
Witt
(Aug 22 07, 13:50)"you believe"
we had a very serious incident with riot police being seriously drugged beating up bypassers etc. during the end of a festival, there was a lot of investigation by journalists etc.
then a similar thing happened on a smaller scale which was really on purpose of inciting criminal activities, which is illegal.
- TheBlueOne0
4cy if you have no problem with the police and government agencies infiltrating peaceful protests to initiate violence to serve as a pretext to crackdown on protest, all well and good.
In my dictionary that's called totalitarianism.
And having one protest group infiltrate another (your skinhead example) is a whole different ball of wax.
- ********0
thanks Nairn.
i was stating the obvious, there's a lot of yay saying here.
if i am wrong i take the blame, i haven't seen anything about it in the media here.
but in a lot of other threads i have seen to many comments that seem to be written in a context of naivity towards reality.
if that offends you, go ahead. i am simply voiving my opinion. not saying youare detached.
i am not posting here for popularity degrees. i am sorry.
this is a messageboard, not highschool.
- M0NEYCIDE0
it's quasi legal and basically you get a few retired cops saying they disapprove, the investigation gets side tracked and ignored and they continue doing it.
i know a couple RCMP i'm itching to talk to about this because they're honest. love to watch the video with them. both were trained as riot police, on call, and members of the canadian style swat teams. one was a part of helicopter team during a summit in BC being flown around with usa military. they cooperate and work right next to each other.
- ********0
"4cy if you have no problem with the police and government agencies infiltrating peaceful protests to initiate violence to serve as a pretext to crackdown on protest, all well and good."
*sigh
this is exactly what i mean.
how can i explain?like i said, maybe it was the police.
it is NOT about how i feel about the police or left wing activists or right wing, i was simply pointing out that it does not ALWAYS have to be the police and that it is easy to judge beforehand.
anyway, i will go ahead and say:
yes it was the police.now give me my popularity prize, i am so eager to show my momma.
- TheBlueOne0
Of course it has happened before. Now one here is that naive. In fact part of the counter strategy by protest groups is to in fact locate and identify these double agents. It's just that this is the first time I have seen it caught on camera like this and if it gets wider media coverage outside canada (doubt it) it would shock most usual "nightly news viewers" who don't know this shit happens from a hole in the ground. They just think some sort of "vegan hippie anarchist broke a starbucks window protesting your right to get rich like all the other rich folks"
- ********0
"it's quasi legal and basically you get a few retired cops saying they disapprove, the investigation gets side tracked and ignored and they continue doing it. "
damn. that's bad. but i do believe that is true. in a similar incident here most of the investigation was done by journalists, not by the state. if this indeed was the police, then things are seriously going down the drain. like values and confidence, basically it's rape of democracy.
i would not have expected this in canada.
- ********0
i believe that can happen also, obviously. it's a fuzzy world.
but two days ago - ecotopia activists destroyed a transgenic cornfield in the south of PT. The owner of the field had an heart-attack because all his investments were destroyed in a fewe hours by protestors.
what i'm saying is that activists (most of them so-called pacifists) also use violence to make statements.
You can say: "but they are right!"
But then you're going into morals.
And if we go into morals there's hardly any pacific solution for anything. You can't push "good" into anyone's hand.
- ********0
hand=head
- ********0
Also don't feel offended blueone and nairn. i was not pointing at the regulars but at a lot of new ones here, that have posted a lot of things that seem painfully naive.
i apologize if i offended anyone.
now i am going to light a candle for canada.
- ********0
i believe that can happen also, obviously. it's a fuzzy world.
but two days ago - ecotopia activists destroyed a transgenic cornfield in the south of PT. The owner of the field had an heart-attack because all his investments were destroyed in a fewe hours by protestors.
what i'm saying is that activists (most of them so-called pacifists) also use violence to make statements.
You can say: "but they are right!"
But then you're going into morals.
And if we go into morals there's hardly any pacific solution for anything. You can't push "good" into anyone's hand.
Witt
(Aug 22 07, 14:03)FUCKING AMEN!
- TheBlueOne0
I see your point Witt, but ultimately the trade off we have with any State (in the Locke/Hobbsean conceptual space) is that we surrender to the State the use of Violence in use for the common good. Anyone can use violence of course and the State has the right to prosecute and punish those that use violence. If the State system itself is the instigator of violence against the general populace for reasons of control, etc. then it's violating the principle that it holds the sole license to use violence for the common good. It breaks the social contract.
Theoretically speaking.
- ********0
FUCKING AMEN!
4cY
(Aug 22 07, 14:05)you a tad knave!
love,
- ********0
you're
- M0NEYCIDE0
yeah activist do use violence and murder (prolifers) etc. but in these situations they've changed a lot. Many of them have meetings first and are drilled on what to do and not to do and any form of agressive acts are stricktly disapproved of because it defeats the purpose for obvious reason. That's why these guys stuck out because they weren't listening to the other protestors and doing all the wrong things.