Atheists vs Christians
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- ********0
you know what... why does it have to be a game with this god dude? it's like we're his little toys. shit, if he WAS a loving god he'd actually do something about all of the problems of the world that take place in his (various) names. cant the guy just poke his head out of the clouds and say "yup, here i am, i exist" and settle the damn thing?
its just a stupid game with him, and there's no reason to worship anything or anyone like that. i think it's very pompous and arrogant. why should we care about such a being? why is he/she/it the "chosen" one with all of this control? it's bullshit.
religion was created to control people. "if you're bad, you burn for eternity, and if you're good, you get to live in paradise. lies. this shit should be in the children's fiction section.
- flagellum0
BonSeff: I can't prove that. I can only look at the evidence and see where it points. Thus far, we know that matter and energy do not spring from non-matter. We also know that biogenesis is established - that life only comes from life. So logic fits in when we consider the evidence.
- ********0
I think I am a pagan - in the sense of being someone who believes in everything and naught.
Maybe I'll start a thread on this issue someday (and there's many good philosophical questions that need debating) - but I don't think it is really important.
Especially given how most threads, or conversations, turn into - and especially because they all turn into oblivion and are but circumstancial events of people gathering in the same place, and i'm not sure of what you gather from those.
If there's is any truth, or none, it surely needs to be above those circumstances - or else it is but circumstance, and confusion is our only reality, and we live in chaos - which is also doubtful.
The thing is - how can you say that the universe is organised or an accident, if you've have never seen and probably can ever see the whole of the things that exist?
Who are those priests who try to tell us what reality is?
Human language or math cannot grasp the entire expanse of the thing we live in. And that is not a proof of God. It is a proof of doubt.
Everyone who claims to explain everything is a fool.
We (I at least) live in Doubt.
- BonSeff0
water and sunlight baby.
- flagellum0
Antonelli: I'm not sure where you got your theology from, but it didn't come from the Bible. So, I'm not sure which "god" tradition you're talking about. If we are talking about the Biblical God, then its important to understand that man was created without sin and imperfection. Man chose to rebel against God and this introduced sin and corruption and death. So, we chose to sin. God could have responded by wiping us from the face of the earth, in his perfect holiness and justice. Instead, he chose to send his son to die for us so that we can receive his forgiveness as a free gift.
- ********0
now I must walk my dog - and that is the truth.
- ********0
- TheBlueOne0
now I must walk my dog - and that is the truth.
Witt
(May 10 07, 11:34)Cause you are like a god to your dog...
- madirish0
God could have responded by wiping us from the face of the earth, in his perfect holiness and justice. Instead, he chose to send his son to die for us so that we can receive his forgiveness as a free gift.
flagellum
(May 10 07, 11:33)and that is what makes absolutly no farking sense whatsoever. this is a humanist reasoning and justification for an 'act' that should not be considered w/ such rationale based on the earlier statements that are suposed to be 'believed'. thus, how can it be a logical result to an interpretive history?
mind you, i do not come to said conclusion from pulling it out of my ass, but from the 10 or 11 years worth of theology and comparative biblical study i have done in school.
i am as aetheist as they come and i love studying both theology and biblical literature......not just the Bible. if you choose to be a scholar of the latter, you are a beater and not flying far from the nest. students of any area look to other sourcs, influences, anyting to give relative context to the part/piece inwhich they are focusing.... insomuch to give them a critical view of work.
i think this is where flagellum (and with all respect, those who also believe in those statements he places here) and those who challenge him differ and where dialogue breaks down.
- mrdobolina0
old-timey population control
- TheBlueOne0
Happy to be an athiest. And I have enough room in my belief to consider I just might be wrong, but I have the sneaky suspicion if I get to meet the Big Guy, I'll just say "Son of a bitch.." and he'll say "I know..." then we'll both laugh and then he'll offer me a beer.
- mrdobolina0
hahaha, he loves you all but he aint above torturing the shit out of you for an eternity!
- ********0
flag: prove your god exists first, then you can tell me that "man chose to rebel against him, that he created man without sin, and that he sent his son, etc. etc.)
- mrdobolina0
we are all the descendants of lily white, adam and eve.
even wesley snipes.
- ********0
someone get me a banana tree leaf
- TheBlueOne0
My nickname for Flagellum is now:
The Born Again Christian Theology Argument Generating Unit 4000
- mrdobolina0
haha kirk cameron 2.0 banana man!
- gramme0
I'm not sure Agnosticism is actually a form of faith, beyond believing in oneself. It takes quite a leap of faith to believe in God. Agnosticism is characterized by the proverbial throwing up of one's hands and saying "I don't know what is out there."
I see evidence of God in nature, but in this freakishly fast, loud world it can be difficult if not impossible to hear that still small voice.
Antonelli, I hear and understand your questions about God. If he is good, then why do bad things happen? How can we explain suffering? Hunger? Disease? Murder? The world is a corrupt place, no doubt about that. Anyone who is half awake can see that we are not moving forward in most arenas. Sure, our technology is better than ever, but who will care about the latest and greatest Blackberry or car or computer when WW3 explodes over our heads (which will eventually happen, at the current rate the world is going).
So, how can God allow this shit to happen every day? I am not sure. I believe that the world was once perfect, but that it fell because sin, or a lack of perfection (any questions about this, you should look up the writings of Augustine, particularly on the nature of evil), was introduced into the world. It was through human actions that sin was introduced. It was through our mistakes that perfection was tarnished and became something less, well, perfect. But if God, being all-knowing, -powerful and -loving, could have prevented it all, why didn't he? The best answer I have is that he has some divine purpose that is beyond our comprehension. I cannot explain away an imperfect world. But, having accepted that the world is, for the time being, imperfect, there are some things that can be answered in light of what has been revealed about God's nature. God does not desire our pain and suffering. He does, however, allow it because of our legacy of wrongdoing, because in light of pain we know pleasure this side of eternity, and because he is a God of promises who sticks to his word. He offers daily grace to all of us by allowing us to wake up and breathe and eat and walk, even though we are born with blasphemy on our lips and selfishness in our hearts, and even though we tear ourselves and each other apart every day.
Perfection is an impossible concept for us imperfect creatures to wrap our minds around. Perhaps there is something about the nature of a perfect God that requires his/its' glorification, and our knowledge of Him. I'm not sure. But because I am not struck dead every day, I know that he is good. Because of the wife, friends and family that I have been blessed with, I know that he is good. Because of the hard lessons I have learned through failure and heartache, I know that he is good. I know that he showed me mercy even when I cursed him, literally. I know that he took pity on my helpless state enough to die, and not only to die but to go to hell in my behalf. I can never repay that gift, I can only enjoy it.
Why does evil exist? I don't know. Perhaps it would be more fruitful to ask these questions: why am I spared? Why am I shown grace every day? Why am I upheld by a force greater than myself? What is my purpose in life?
It is so easy for us to be ungrateful in this age of entitlement. We spend so much time counting our curses, when it would serve us much better to count our blessings.
- mrdobolina0
prove it.
- TheBlueOne0
gramme...did you expect anyone to read that? No, seriously...wow..A+ for effort..