Jesus Tomb
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- ender790
blueone, i can't disagree with you on one point - the Bible has been used by selfish people to do selfish, self-serving, and evil things.
does the fact that people misuse the Bible invalidate it? if i used my computer solely as a paperweight - never turned it on, just used it to keep my papers from flying off of my desk - does that mean that it can't do what a computer should? no. it would simply mean that i was ignorant of the computer's intended use.
what i don't understand is that you say that "people running around doing things to protect their own souls for personal salvation to me reeks of Selfishness and the ultimate immorality," but those who try to share their faith are similarly spurned. so is it a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation with christians (no pun intended)? i'm not trying to start shit, just trying to figure out where you're coming from.
as for the 6 days of creation - one of my professors at the christian university i attended was an old earth creationist. the explanation he set forth regarding the 6 literal days was that God revealed his creation process to moses over a six day period while moses was writing genesis.
- jpea0
because God exists outside of time and space. It's his creation. He's not subject to these creations. Therefore, we can't make a chronological timeline of such events. We aren't thinking on his plane. It's a noetic framework approach.
flagellum
(Feb 28 07, 11:20)
- TheBlueOne0
But back to the original theme of this thread:
I think it's a hoax, or a badly thought out rush to judgement without the serious scholarly and archeological work behind it to make such a profound statement seriously.
I think it's a simple ploy to generate hype and controversey.
And big deal if it really were true..there is nothing about in finding that J man had a tomb and or a child that, to my understanding, would truly undermine faith in the underlying tenets of christianity.
Unless you were a simpleton in regards to your understanding of said religion.
- flagellum0
That's a good point, gramme. Since the ultimate need of all people is to be redeemed.
- BonSeff0
conversion is a goal, you know it
- flagellum0
Conversion is a goal for every true Christian. If you believe that people can spend eternity in the presense of their creator who loves them unconditionally and that it is a free-gift received by simply placing your faith God's provision, of course you'd want to share that with everyone you met!
- mrdobolina0
yes it is an absolute goal... there really is no question about it.
the missionaries tirick brown people into christianity by giving them food. Ask Pat Robertson and the people of Liberia.
- BonSeff0
have you heard the good news and all that, yea yeah
- TheBlueOne0
See, Flaggellum makes the mistake thinking I have a one-dimensional understanding of christianity..that I get my news on it from the "liberal media" or whatever. Or that I think that all christianity is is somehow wrapped up in a single southern american evangelical tradition. I did alot of hard work trying to find spiritual acceptance in it's doctrine and tradition and it just ultimately left me cold.
In fact, I quite understand people's passions about it, and why and how they believe and have faith in what they do. I don't belittle that at all.
Just saying why it doesn't work for me and stating the reasons. I am not anti-christian. I understand completely that many people do very good things in the pursuit of that particular faith.
I do resent christians or any other religion claiming to be "the only way". And of all the flavors of christianity as practiced, I do find modern american evangelical understanding of the religion pretty uninspriring and simple minded. Again, just my opinion.
- flagellum0
mrdobolina, you're a riot.
"trick" lol. I'll have to share this with my missionary friends who have sacrificed careers and relationships to go into 3rd world countries simply to build homes for and feed those in need. They'll get a kick out of it.
- TheBlueOne0
the missionaries tirick brown people into christianity by giving them food. Ask Pat Robertson and the people of Liberia.
mrdobolina
(Feb 28 07, 11:40)yeah, but the missionaries did it for so many different reasons - political, economic, etc.
And it was all part of their own "self delusion" that it meant destroying these people's civilizations in order to "save them". Again, selfishness i pursuit of getting everyone to think the way they did. I call that spiritual brittleness.
- gramme0
I met a man recently who is a preacher in Mexico City. He also heads up a ministry to 2 million people who live in the largest public dump in Central America.
One Saturday as he was preparing a sermon, his neighbor knocked on his door. This preacher (his name is Saul) opened his door to find the man weeping. Saul invited him in, and soon found out that the guys' marriage was falling apart. Saul then spent the rest of the afternoon speaking with the couple; at the end of their time, they decided to keep trying, having learned much about themselves and how they'd been making mistakes as a couple.
The man asked Saul if he was a Christian. Saul said yes. The man asked again if he was a preacher, to which the reply was also a yes. The couple said that they would very much like to visit his church the next day. Saul tried to dissuade them, saying that it's in a dump, it's very crude, there weren't even any real walls. This however only piqued their interest, so Saul relented and said he'd be glad to see them there.
The next morning, just as church was starting, a local man came running in breathless, saying that a disaster had just happened and he needed help. The congregation followed him, to find a road curving sharply downhill from the dump that had an enormous new hole in it. The road had caved in, revealing a cavern where a large sewage pipe had burst. A river of shit was running downhill into an area thickly populated by poor people.
Apparently the Mexican govt. had packed the area in with sand, built pipes and streets over it all, and sold the land to the poor of Mexico City.
Bewildered, they asked among themselves what could be done. Saul's neighbor came forward, and told them that he was a mining engineer. He might be able to help them.
Through a system of sandbags and levers, they eventually filled the hole and sealed the pipes back together. By this point the day and night had gone, it was about 5 AM when they finished. All the men were covered in shit from head to toe. The women hosed them all down back at the church, and they all went home exhausted but relieved.
Saul gets up every day to this kind of life without expecting any sort of earthly reward. He is one of the most content and joyful people I have ever met. A true man of God. There are too few like him.
- M0NEYCIDE0
there's missionaries in every religion and conversion is only a main goal for certain types. mormons are littered around this neighborhood and they walk around in pairs having silly chit chats and shaking hands and being otherwise very nice people, they don't harass or anything, they might, if you talk enough ask for your phone number. it's natural to walk to share your life and love. stop being paranoid you're missing out.
- Drno0
WWJD
- flagellum0
gramme, shhhh... that won't fit in with the nonsensical views of mrdobolina, at all.
- barbtastic0
There are gazillions of Christian missionary organizations serving strictly the physical needs of people around the globe without evangelism.
flagellum
(Feb 28 07, 11:34)
---------------------Yet you spend your time lecturing hopeless NT'ers hehe
- mrdobolina0
gramme people do nice things everyday and it has nothing to do with god, you understand that right?
- flagellum0
point taken, barb. :) I'm a little dense that way.
Actually there are lots of honest lurkers who may pick up on something that's said in these "discussions" and take it to heart. Also, these topics aren't too common on NT these days.
- flagellum0
What does that have to do with missionairy Christians and their alleged dubious agendas, mrdobolina? Stick to the topic at hand.
- TheBlueOne0
Hey, I was talking primarily of the role of many missionaries in the beginning of european colonial times when I made my remark. Modern missionaries are a far more benign and spiritually motivated lot who do lots of good work.