Jesus Tomb
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- slinky0
not reading this entire thread yet, here are some interesting news stories from 1996 regarding this.
notice... the were NO bones found.
- TheBlueOne0
This was always my fav:
- mrdobolina0
I posted that last one half-jokingly, jesus was rad, the people that came after him f'd it all up.
- mrdobolina0
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/doo…
best christian rock song evar.
- TheBlueOne0
and fyi the torah called for a military conquer, not some unemployed hippie.
lemmys_wart
(Feb 28 07, 15:21)A) I think he was gainfully employed as a carpenter inbetween bouts of rampant preaching, although the bible is silent on his level of skill with the wood.
B) You go to salvation with the Messiah you get, not the one you want.
- M0NEYCIDE0
...and all the people who are trying to do something about it.
- lemmys_wart0
and fyi the torah called for a military conquer, not some unemployed hippie.
so whay have we got?
instutional slavery, the divine right of kings, subdigation of women, false prophets and a modern flock of questionalble morals.
nice work there.
- lemmys_wart0
"why have i forsaken myself?"
-jesus
- PonyBoy0
"The Bible teaches that Christ is 100% God and 100% man."
... John 1:1?
if you're going to use that scripture to back up the trinity (and it's the only one I can think of that trinitarian believers use)... I suggest you keep reading the chapter.
If God wants us to be that close to him, flag... why would he confuse us so? :)
- gramme0
I hear what you're saying gramme, but you know, either god is a supreme being or he isn't. If he is, then he knows what hell is, and what it entails, and especially the human experience of suffering and death. And you can't make claims like that the guy is so supreme he made like everything, in like six days, and did all the other stuff to keep it all going (See book of Job for God detailing all the great things he does that puny human will never and simply cannot understand )and so forth and then go "Oh shit! This is what this feels like! Man, this sucks..." I mean if he was as much fully god as he was man, how is he forsaken - he should be at one with the entire thing, including death - especially if death is only a gateway to a spiritual afterlife that he, if anyone, is completely certain of.
Didn't mean it as bait, just meant it as one of a number of particular NT moments which bug me. That said, IF I believe in the historical Jesus as a man of some spiritual depth and wisdom, I find his statements on the cross reassuringly human and very comfiorting and only adds to the actionable part of his message on finding spiritual peace in the world.
But hey, I'm a heretic, so what do I know.
TheBlueOne
(Feb 28 07, 13:19)That's the thing though, being a supreme, perfect being means NOT knowing evil, not as we do at least. God (and therefore Jesus) recognizes it, he just doesn't experience it from the inside out. Thus in Genesis, Adam & Eve tasted of the fruit and KNEW good & evil.
Why can't one claim that he made the earth in six days? Christians differ on whether it actually was six days, but what's the difference – if you can create a universe, you can create a billion, and if you can do it at all you can do it in six days. You can also appear, walk talk and breathe on earth, as well as die a human death, descend to hell, and rise again to glory.
being fully human (albeit perfect) allowed Jesus to meet us on our level, to feel pain, know fear, loneliness heartache, and so on. I also find his statements on the cross reassuringly human, as well as all the times when Jesus was tired, hungry, told a joke, wept.
- flagellum0
The Bible teaches that Christ is 100% God and 100% man. This means that in his human nature, he had all of the limitations that every human has: He hungered, he got tired, etc... So, in his humanity, he agonized on the cross. Philipians 2 says that he voluntarily gave held in abeyance his attributes as deity when he took on human flesh... but never ceased being completely God.
Don't expect to wrap your brain completely around that one. Nobody has been able to.
- TheBlueOne0
I hear what you're saying gramme, but you know, either god is a supreme being or he isn't. If he is, then he knows what hell is, and what it entails, and especially the human experience of suffering and death. And you can't make claims like that the guy is so supreme he made like everything, in like six days, and did all the other stuff to keep it all going (See book of Job for God detailing all the great things he does that puny human will never and simply cannot understand )and so forth and then go "Oh shit! This is what this feels like! Man, this sucks..." I mean if he was as much fully god as he was man, how is he forsaken - he should be at one with the entire thing, including death - especially if death is only a gateway to a spiritual afterlife that he, if anyone, is completely certain of.
Didn't mean it as bait, just meant it as one of a number of particular NT moments which bug me. That said, IF I believe in the historical Jesus as a man of some spiritual depth and wisdom, I find his statements on the cross reassuringly human and very comfiorting and only adds to the actionable part of his message on finding spiritual peace in the world.
But hey, I'm a heretic, so what do I know.
- mrdobolina0
Another D'Souza Quote, wow this guy is a crackpot. It really makes sense that the discipler thinks he is awesome-o
"The cultural left in this country is responsible for causing 9/11 ... the cultural left and its allies in Congress, the media, Hollywood, the non-profit sector and the universities are the primary cause of the volcano of anger toward America that is erupting from the Islamic world."
Yeah it has nothing to do with the re-drawing of borders and raping of natural resources around the world, propping up puppet regimes and keeping the people poor as shit.
This guy is so f-ed. wow.
- gramme0
what happened along the way?
*ducks shoe thrown at my head.
TheBlueOne
(Feb 28 07, 13:11)Pat Robertson!
- gramme0
Ha, no worries dobs. I'm sorry you felt that way, hopefully next time I'll catch it before it slips out.
And try to stay out of the trees, regardless of what they tell you about the positive effects on your skin tone.
- TheBlueOne0
What I want to know, if the bible is full of contridiction and paradox, and the basis of humor is also primarily sudden changes in perception bc of a paradox, why so many christian forms of entertainment just aren't funny. The Jews seem to be very funny and they're operating with the same base source material, so what happened along the way?
*ducks shoe thrown at my head.
- gramme0
I mean if he knew he was going to die and rise up, why the forsaken statement? Who forsook him if he IS the embodiment off god on earth? If it was all neatly pre-ordained, why the moment of spiritual doubt.
Just saying. Either way, in all seriousness, it's one of the most sublime scenes in the NT for me. Made Jesus totally human to me...
TheBlueOne
(Feb 28 07, 13:00)I'll take the bait.
Jesus said "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me" as he was dying on the cross because, being God, he had never known what it was like to experience hell. I believe that he actually experienced hell while hanging on the cross. The definition of hell here being the complete absence of God. God left him, utterly abandoned and in the dark, for the first time in eternity. This was necessary for the sacrifice to be complete, and for it to be enough. And yes, this is Jesus being very human, and afraid beyond what we could ever fathom. He was fully God and fully man.
That's why it was news to him. He knew he had to do it, he just had never suffered hell before (being perfect and having lived in eternity as part of the Trinity before he came to earth, etc. etc.)
- flagellum0
and I don't care. I'm more interested in statistics and historical facts. It's the honest approach when forming conclusions.