May 1 Immigrant March
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- 81 Responses
- simonando0
PonyBoy
you sir clearly have a problem understanding my previous comments. i have ageed with most of your points (taxation and republican election tactics/divisions) however you failed to understand that the rules that most republicans are trying to put forth are unjust and unamerican (fence building, hr4437, etc.). the history is important becaus it takes generations and generations for countries and cultures to deal with the outcomes of wars (mexican/american war in particular) and free trade agreements like nafta. the result, the rich get richer and the rest of us get the shaft. that is what is happening in the NOW. i'll be DEALING THESE RULES by voting, writing my congressmen, marching, and dealing with the undertones of racisim which are increasingly becoming clear.
- PonyBoy0
undertones of racisim which are increasingly becoming clear.
simonando
(Apr 27 06, 20:13)Enter response:
racism from the immigrant side... not from Americans... legal ones that is.
fence building is not unjust... and neither is hr4437 - if you read that document - it's entirely about increasing the security and creating additional deterants to keep folks from pouring in unnannounced...
... and they literally pour over the border.... hundreds a day... this is not a racist issue... sweet lord - I'm so confused why everyone keeps screaming 'racism'.... this has nothing to do if you're hispanic!
nafta?... mex/am war and generations to get better?
how about a corrupt shitty government in Mexico who could care less about their citizens?! You wanna talk corruption where the rich get rich and the poor get poorer? Look to the south.
In the states we are not in poverty as your analogy of 'free trade agreements' indicates. That's REDICULOUS. $10 says you're rocking a smooth pair of jeans and shoes that fit your lifestyle kindly... the fact that you're logging into NT tells me that you're NOT POOR... and neither are the rest of us.
America has the means to make ANYONE wealthy if you work hard enough (that includes educating yourself)... and THAT is why people want to come here...
You go write your little letters though and beg for America to keep bending over. Be sure you continue to overlook the BILLIONS American dishes out to countries (like Mexico) in need of aid each year.
I'm kinda stunned by the LACK OF RESPONSE from those who came to America via legal means - aren't any of you kinda pissed that people who didn't come here via the means you did are DEMANDING rights? I'm for amnesty (but it's time to get in the books and get to work on making your life better)... just don't try shit like calling 'racism' to scare everyone into giving into you. HORSE PUCKY.
- pocho0
well, the recent hispanic gains have come over the last 3 elections cycles. the Republicans started eroding the hispanic vote with the first working visa plan four years ago.
Lots of hispanics thought it was a slap in the face.
- simonando0
Ponyboy:
"fence building is not unjust... and neither is hr4437 - if you read that document.."
i read the key points to the document and once again if you read my previous comments i was referring to the section regarding felony charges for assisting people in need. if you equate providing food and shelter to a person in dire need a FELONY and just then you lack compassion. i feel sorry for you if god forbid you're ever in a time of need. also walls and fences really worked well in china and berlin.
"how about a corrupt shitty government in Mexico" i agree with you on this point please refer to my previous comments.
"In the states we are not in poverty as your analogy of 'free trade agreements' indicates..."
the slow death of the middle class in this country is a direct result of no worker protection in U.S. trade policies. if we continue at this rate then the poverty level will surely increase"and beg for America to keep bending over. Be sure you continue to overlook the BILLIONS American dishes out to countries (like Mexico) in need of aid each year." wow if you think this country gives away free money with no strings attached then you're living in a bubble. you should try traveling to countries affected by these money lending policies, it would make a mobster blush.
"just don't try shit like calling 'racism' to scare everyone into giving into you."
i'm sure you're white and of course you would not see the racism involved in this "shit." from all your comments you lack basic american compassion and it's probably no point to continue this thread. it also sounds to me that you're the one that is scared of a bunch of colored folk getting together and practicing they're constitutional right. god bless america.
- PonyBoy0
Enter response:
dude... it's the time we live in...
... if it were pre 9-11... I'd be different in my thinking... but the truth is I don't like how 'flimsy' security feels in this country...
... and if you knew me in real life - you'd forget you were hanging out w/a white person... except when I'd trade racial slurs w/you out love... :)
security is more important right now... imho. there are plenty of folks in this world who love to blow up shit just to blow up shit... right now it's time to demand accountability... that is all, duder...
... i don't you're reading me - you keep going back to race - you can't help yourself!! STOP. This is all about security, accountability and rules.
what 'slow death' of the middle class are you talking about? Have a look at the unemployment rate, the economy in general... AND the amount of people buying homes in this country for the last five years... DUDE... your 'middle-class' has grown... and is jammed-packed w/every race out there!
WHAT STRINGS are you talking about in regards to 'being attached' w/U.S. aid money? Most 'strings' as you call them are to hold the receiver ACCOUNTABLE... because - as MUST BE HAPPENING W/THE MONEY GOING TO MEXICO... it's like you or I giving a drunk a $20/bill... chances are he's gonna booze up on it... not do something productive... I'd really like a breakdown of what the countries DO w/their aid from the U.S...
... that's a slam at foreign gov's there.
security first right now... or why bother?
- PonyBoy0
Enter response:
sorry... i type fast when my mind get's moving... i'm not sure all of that made sense...
... sorry to get all worked up on this... it's very much a security thing and NOT a racial thing - I could care less who has more money than me. :)
- Cactus0
An interesting thread. In Europe the question is more acute than in the US for reasons of space, social conditions, and a more rooted sense of national identity.
I would just like to add two points for what it's worth:
One, is the fact that the idea of the "free movement of peoples" seems to have been codified by certain "progressive" elements as a "human right" of some sort regardless of the social consequences on the host country (i.e. the rise of far right political parties) or the long held notion of national sovereignty. If one has the temerity to question such "established" rights, the epithet "racist" or "____phobic" is habitually employed to intimidate and/or shut down the debate thereby fuelling further polarization.
The second is much more immediate for Europe, but is nonetheless at the heart of the ongoing discussion going on in the U.S. also, and that is assimilation and the fear of a diminution or subsumption of national identities by other races and cultures.
No one likes to talk about this but it is the 500 lb. gorilla in the room during these kinds of discussions. And if one is able to talk about this issue honestly and without rancor, then some progress will be made in finding a solution to what is, in fact, a force of history and not, as some would like to frame it for political purposes, some evil American/capitalist plot.
- lowimpakt0
people don'ty like to consider that they might just be greedy and racist. They'll bend over backwards to give reasons why they aren't and try to justify themselves with a smelly self-satisfaction.
I'm irish. I work in the UK no questions asked. Ok schengen agreement or post-colonial guilt or whatever. but if i was coming from poland or somewhere not so white with the same skills (as many do) the eyebrows would be raised.
fuck that.
- Anarchitect0
'nation' will become deprecated in the future
not open borders.
no borders at all.
man-nation | meta nation.
- skt0
Irish Out!!
- determinedmoth0
I'm irish. I work in the UK no questions asked. Ok schengen agreement or post-colonial guilt or whatever. but if i was coming from poland or somewhere not so white with the same skills (as many do) the eyebrows would be raised.
fuck that.
lowimpakt
(Apr 28 06, 02:32)That's because you're part of the UK. Even the North is really, you're just stubborn to bend over...
- simonando0
Ponyboy
we both got off topic sense the thread started and now from your last post we're down to a) race, b) security, and c) ramifications of U.S. free trade/lending policies. i'll start with c) instead of posting links to various newspaper articles and studies i'd suggest you take some serious time off (about 1 month) and do some traveling. don't stay in a gated resort, really rough it. i recommend starting in argentina and work your way north and eventually through central america. along the way spark up a conversations about topic c) and take a ton of photos. all my previous points will be made crystal clear. onto topic b) turning this country into a giant gated community is not the answer to our security issues (which is a much bigger topic). i'm sure it's not what the forefathers had in mind. finally topic a) as suspected you're white and based on some of your previous comments (i.e."pre 9/11 thinking,status of middle class) it sounds like you're regurgitating the same old tired republican talking points and see things differently so we'll go in circles so there's no point.
- mrdobolina0
simon, do you think the borders should be wide open?
- PonyBoy0
Enter response:
apparently i'm a homebody w/loads of cash and a gate to my community...
... you're right simon - we'll go round and round... as you too are spilling all the 'talking points' (only from the other side) and calling anyone who's for secure borders a racist... //i'm going to take your advice and begin w/my Motorcycle Diary adventure AS SOON as I cash in this quarter's exxon stocks...
- mrdobolina0
Why has it come upon America to sort out the problems of other sovereign nations, such as Mexico and Argentina, etc. Simon? Do these countries not have more of a duty to the citizens of their countries than America does?
These South and Central American countries get a pass on all of the bad shit that they do, but America never does, Why do you suppose that is?
Now, anyone who knows me or has read anything I have to say about political issues knows that I am about as far from Republican as a person can be. So don't pigeonhole me.
- PonyBoy0
Enter response:
dobs... I will pigeon-hole you every filthy chance I get...
... you stinky 'publican!
I've never been so proud of you.
*holding you right now
- simonando0
mrdobolina;
"simon, do you think the borders should be wide open?"i believe it's not that simple of a question. i believe it's a matter of creating fair trade policies that would encourage economic growth here and abroad which would then encourage people to stay in their own countries.
"Why has it come upon America to sort out the problems of other sovereign nations, such"
i agree with you on this point and apparently most people in latin american countries do as well by the rise of leftist democracies (venezuela, bolivia..etc). most of those countries are beginning to unite and take care of their own.PonyBoy;
if you read my previous comments you would clearly see i was not calling people who want secure borders racist."I cash in this quarter's exxon stocks..."
i fail to see the humor in that especially with the current condition of the country/world. if you think republicans are doing such a great job god help us all. we'll see what the majority of americans think in november. also i'm no democrat either, i'm an independent thinker who feels this once great country has gone waaaaaaay off course.
- johndiggity0
i thought this was a thread about the reboot...
- mrdobolina0
simon, noone was jumping the border before NAFTA?