Intelligent? Design
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- gramme0
Tank,
Thanks for the response, an interesting opinion. However, it is an opinion. It takes a certain amount of faith to believe either side of the story.
Nothing more. I think we can disagree with eachother and get along, right?
- gramme0
BTW, I also hate what most people have made of religion. A true faith is not about us or our agendas, but something far greater.
- discipler0
I appreciate you sharing your heart, Tank. Forgive my impatience, I've just heard the type of objections which you employed, for a very long time and they don't hold any water. They are not based in fact. You begin by making the mistake of putting the Bible and the Quran in the same category. It's apples to oranges. When you examine the Bible manuscripts and submit them to the science of Textual Criticism, you find that the Bible is in a category of it's own. No other religious text comes close to the reliability, preservation, consistancy. Additionally, you have the unique claims of Christ which cannot be compared to world religions and their leaders.
- tank020
i share your viewpoint gramme..
for instance my mother is now a buddhist and she moved to portugal after the divorce with my father and she helps kids without parents there...
thats what i call religion and faith and that is what i admire.
not flockin in one group and saying ' we are of this faith'
- tank020
ah, i did know that discpler..my bad.
- twooh0
Obviously you two have some serious issues with each other.
When someone starts bragging about how much they know about religion and whatnot just because of their upbringings, I have to step back because it obviously is getting personal.
If you want a serious debate, throw out the personal first.
- pavlovs_dog0
"People need Jesus"
-discipler
^ what all this i.d. nonsense is really about. you knew the answer before the qusetion was asked.
funny how ONLY fundies support it. you ever wonder why?
- rise0
"when the uninformed use tired rhetoric like "science zings the bible" etc... blah blah, they are merely regurgitating the pseudo-enlightenment drivel that their academic and political gurus have fed them."
I was merely making a sarcastic joke, much like when you used "bible" and "consistency" in the same sentenace.
- pavlovs_dog0
obligatory post of desciplers mom
- gramme0
Can't you guys shake hands, agree to disagree & call it a day? I can't imagine what else can be said on this subject.
Many points have been made, som better than others. There seems to be a dearth of basic respect from a number of people posting on these sorts of threads. Doesn't apply all around, you know who you are.
These issues are naturally divisive. The implications of certain worldviews, if true, are too incendiary for many to ignore.
Resorting to calling eachother names and making absurd, uneducated and inflammatory blanket statements is an utter waste of time and shows a fundamental lack of maturity. It's a mistake I myself & all of us have made in our lives, and it's one that I am personally trying to stay away from.
Respectful discourse is great, though I'm not sure how good it makes us look when the PVN is clogged with childish and unthoughtful invective. Imagine if our cients found this site and saw us flinging shit at eachother like a bunch of monkeys.
Just my cents. Happy New Year everyone.
- breadlegz0
Hi Tank
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences in the past. I've had friends who have had catholic upbringings and hate religion in the same way that you do.
I too hated religion. I hated going to a church when forced to to listen to some dull vicar.
But 3 years ago I became a Christian. I decided to read the Bible in an unbiased manner afetr snubbing it for 27 years. And what I found was incredible.
I met a load of Christians who didnt fit in with the ''religious mould" that the media has created. I found people that really care for all those around them and want to transform teh community I live in.
I met people who battle to get people off the streets and into houses. People who give up their wealth and dedicate their lives to giving. Businessmen who pump millions into projects here and abroad.
Jesus taught about loving the Lord with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself.
MANY have turned his teachings into something HE never intended. Please dont see what we have done, see what he was trying to acheive...
- bitnik0
guys guys guys ... let's all calm down a bit.
You have to make a difference between a religious idea and its practitioners.
It's not because i throw a stone at your face that the stone is evil ... same goes for any idea which somebody uses to supress others ...I myself never went to church, wasn't raised in a religious family ... hell, i even didn't get baptised. But today i see myself as a rather "spiritual" person because i belief there's more between heaven and earth than our poor senses can see.
But i don't impose my ideas on other people ...
- 187LockDown0
Intelligent design is an oxymoron. Because it is unintelligent and if you buy it you are a moron.
- mrdobolina0
You know, I've been on here a long time, and I don't say much when it comes to religion, but I really can't stand when people say 'religious zealots', or start mocking people's religious beliefs.
Grow up. These threads have been on forever, and if you really had an idea of how annoying it is to hear you people say "Science zings religion yet again", or " when religious zealots try to convince the rest of the world of their beliefs."
It's just so obvious that you're being hypocritical and unscientific at the same time.
I'm a Christian, and have never once forced my beliefs on anyone.
I find myself having to defend myself often in boards and creative communities because everyone has this ridiculous stereotype that religious people are 'zealots'.
It's annoying having to sit in group conversations and having to pretend as if I'm not a Christian.
twooh
(Jan 1 06, 13:10)Seems to me that if people have this stereotype, the problem is not 100% with the people. These stereotypes exist for a reason. What I think real christians should do is begin denouncing the money changers like Pat Robertson and Ralph Reed. Distinguish yourselves from the "zealots" if it bothers you. The problem with Christianity in America is that regular religious folks allow people like Pat Robertson and his ilk to operate under the same tent as them, bringing the entire image down for non-religious people.
- discipler0
mrdobs, the 2 or 3 "ministers" who get repeated media coverage (especially when they say something rediculous), do not represent Biblical Christianity. It's a cop-out to reject a belief system that has transformed innumerable lives across the world, simply because some questionable individuals who are in the spotlight, say weird things.
pavlov, if ID is synonymous with Christian "fundies", then what am I to do with the Orthodox Jews, Muslims and Agnostics who are committed ID proponents?
We can't help it that science is pointing more and more towards theism. It's just how it is.
- Anarchitect0
We can't help it that science is pointing more and more towards theism. It's just how it is.
discipler
(Jan 2 06, 05:13)please
show this visible "wave" of id proponents besides southern states school boards in the US of A.
because
outside of it, it just fills the final 20 second slot of "crazy yankee stuff" of any european 8' clock news.
- mrdobolina0
discipler, do you believe that preachers can heal blind people?
If not, then you need look no further than your cable or satellite tv to see that there are hundreds if not thousands of the snake oil salesman operating with huge congregations within the united states. If you do not like that they do this, you should do point your ire at them, not the secular folks who have no power.
- mrdobolina0
my point is, the televangelists are the only ones that are doing any real damage to jesus christ's name and teachings. You should deal with them.
- discipler0
Muslims for ID:
http://www.harunyahya.com/c_refu…UK ID proponents:
http://www.idintheuk.blogspot.co…About the growing Jewish Support:
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/iss…Prominent ID'ers with varying backgrounds and beliefs:
http://www.iscid.org/fellows.php…
http://www.discovery.org/csc/fel…
- discipler0
Danish ID proponents:
http://www.intelligentdesign.dk/…