< No Logo
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- kelpie0
that's not fair Pascii
pascii
(Jul 27 05, 04:46)
- pascii0
you all must fear Pascii
pascii
(Jul 27 05, 04:46)
- jg_20
interesting thread
- jg_20
but i am so pessimistic. we (humans) have no more control on the system. it is all about numbers, gains, money, we are not able to decide anymore.
war are no longer on politics, or religions, war are on money, power and market.
we talk and talk, and we wear those expensive nike shoes, and hear our alternative shitte with pur ultraexpensive ipod...is easy (me inclusive) to complain
:_(
- danthon0
i am thinking about a 50% design, 50 % gardening job for me in the near future
pascii
(Jul 27 05, 02:06)That is some down to earth thinking!
- honest0
you know what, we should go back to farming our own fields and making our own clothes so then nobody can argue, but it's human nature to want something better or something that looks better. Does that make me any more a bad guy more than that twat on the corner who pushes drugs or the bloke with the exploding rucksack? According to some schools of thought, by wanting more better things I have committed crimes against my own species, yet those who teach this doctrine cannot function in modern-day society without being exposed to or partake in globalisastion. Do they weep each time their fax machines spit out junk ads killing forest upon forest? Do they abhor the entire sports apparel industry and jog in the buff? I DON'T THINK SO!
- Visia0
lol, good thread. And no, Naomi Klein's vision of a Brave New World is not possible.
With that said, don't get me wrong. I'm no brandwhore by any means. I'm not anti-consumerism either.
But the idea of raging against the big bad brand is just stupid in my mind. Anti-brand seems to have become the new brand. Just look at the black dot sneakers that adbusters sells. What a crock of shit.
Anyway, if you really want to read something that has intelligent solutions to our most pressing problems read "Cradle-To-Cradle" by William McDonough and Michael Braungaurt:
http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_…
The problem isn't in the brand, it's in the manufacturing.
- Soler0
A distinction needs to be made. Naomi Klein isn't ANTI-BRAND. we could all still make money in advertising.
The jist of her argument is that there needs to be corporate responsibilty. That these huge brands shouldn't be enslaving people and then putting a pretty face on it.
And Visia, here's the plan: Corporations and their contractors should be forced to pay a living wage, close to what a U.S. worker would make. Prices would go way up. Worldwide standards of living would equalize. And we would not me so rich anymore. That's why U.S. gov. fights it.
- lowimpakt0
Visia, do you not think that sustaianble/cleaner production is irrelevant because of the manner in which products are sold and consumed i.e. the branding advertising process?
mcdonagh and braungart will tell you themselves that the cradle to cradle concept is not going anywhere because of current business practices, market irregulaities/failures etc.
- jevad0
on the money there soler
"corporate responsibilty"
- lowimpakt0
jevad. there is a already a huge amount of stuff on CSR.
http://www.societyandbusiness.go…
http://www.bitc.org.uk/index.htm…
plus 500 other links
but when you begin to peel the reality from the rhetoric in many CSR reports you see the bullshit. And many of the CSR indexes and ethical investment indexes etc use very contestable criteria for assessment.
- Visia0
quickly to lowimpakt, if the products are manufactured in a responsible manner then who gives a shit how they're marketed?
Also, where is it that you saw McDonough and Braungart stating that the Cradle-To-Cradle process won't work? Considering they've built their entire firm based on that principle I'd be surprised if they've spoken out against it.
Lastly, the "equalization of global prosperity" is nearly unattainable. Darwin explains this quite well.
The best you can hope for is that better manufacturing process' can be designed in order to localize production without harming profit.
- slowpoke790
Visia, you are an idiot of the lowest order. I've studied that book in depth and I don't think it's says anything about designers being to blame for anything, nor does it promote a utopia, it does however expose a dangerous level of careless disregard in the business fraternity that if left un-curbed, like a bacteria , will eventually kill itself and us along with it. Is it too much to ask that you publically say you don't like the idea of sweatshops? are you above supporting the little guy? I sincerely hope you die a terrible death you arrogant shit!
- lowimpakt0
visia. well i had a short conversation with braungart about eco-efficiency, cradle-to-cradle and the rebound effect. Decoupling resource use from consumption remains a myth and all the gains from cleaner/sustainable production are offset by greater consumption driven by cost reduction from the efficient production.
so yea it does matter how the stuff is sold and consumed.
- canuck0
Thought the book was okay. Doesnt really offer any solutions though.
Interesting read.
- Soler0
canuck/ solutions are offered on teh website:
- digitalswarm0
Visia, your car is double parked, and will be towed at your expense.
- snuggles0
I wish I could back you up Visia but I have no clue what this thread is about, way too many big words and ideas for this pixel pusher to comprehend...
- spiralstarez0
Does anyone make a distinction between branding, and design?
where I equate branding with the billboards in my city selling condos with obscure names like "chocolat","olive", etc. containing fake lifestyle pictures of some airbrushed model couple lying in bed together and having nothing of what the condos actually look like, or features of them.
Whereas I think graphic design in a pure sense such as JMB would say, should represent something in a true sense, visually communicate it.
Branding = lying
whereas graphic design doesn't neccesarily have to. In this sense I think No Logo as a book is very relevant.
- Soler0
spiral, yes distinctions exist and are huge.
branding is a conceptual language that a brand lives through.
graphic design is just 1 form media used to execute that language visually.