Bush Address Tuesday
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- ********0
True, it's not as strategic. Hey let me dig up a little evidence on Gabon. And how ELF, a French Oil company has been sucking resources out of there for nearly two centuries and yet the average person lives in ruins.
- -ryan_harrell-0
"if Clinton couldn't shake that deal (economy flying high), "
The economy runs in cycles, Clinton got lucky, ask any economist, its not like he did anything great economic wise.
- ********0
Mimio - we could take any oil field on the planet. In fact we took the iraqi oil fields on day one. And we have held them - the pipelines are another story. Any Western power on the planet can take an oil field..
It's not about oil. It's not blood for oil. It's about power. Doesn't matter who sits on it - matters how it's distributed and who refines it...
This was a geopolitical move to get into China's back yard - the same way that China is giving lots of support to Brazil right now so that Brazil is starting to say "fuck you " to the US on some things. China wants us to worry about our backyard - which we haven't had to do in a century...
Trust me water and nationalism will be a much more serious threats to wars than oil...
- cosmo0
N. Korea who openly claim to have nuclear weapons, why was Iraq attacked? oh yes i forget cause they apparently had WMD, i guess those WMD have disappeared somewhere in the desert now.
- ********0
The economy runs in cycles, Clinton got lucky, ask any economist, its not like he did anything great economic wise.
-ryan_harrell-
(Jun 29 05, 13:39)----------------
True to a degree, but he didn't do anything stupid either. You know like bring back trickle down economics....
- Mimio0
Ryan,
Balancing the budget and creating a surplus is good for the dollar and good for foreign investment. Clinton did that.
- ********0
Just as one example:
Elf—an arm of French foreign policy
http://www.wsws.org/articles/200…
Right from its creation, General de Gaulle appointed the founder of the DGSS (Direction générale des services spéciaux—General Command of the Special Services) and former defence minister, Pierre Guillaumet, as the first director of the oil company that was to become Elf-Aquitaine. Today, Elf, although privatised, remains France’s main intelligence service and instrument for action in Africa.
- ********0
Besides the obvious geo-political factors, and GW's inferiority complex, and fine, fine a wee bit about the oil - Iraq was attacked because we always refight the last war. That's just how things are done, and in doing so we fuck them up.
We went back into Iraq because we didn't "finish the job" last time, and we probably should have. And this time the Boomers were in charge and they were going to refight Vietnam the way it should have been done if them damn hippies weren't around (inter generational olitical turf battles. Clintons clique was the hippies. Bushies weren't..)
Just like Gulf War I was Vietnam, part 2 done smarter by the same generation that (Powell doctrine).
World War II fought because WW I was so fucked...
- Mimio0
I would agree Tick, but oil control is the tactic right now. Iraq was chosen for it's resources and the opportunity it created by appearing to be "uncompliant" to the US & UK's interpretation of UN resolution violation.
- ********0
Chosen more for opportunity than oil. It doesn't matter who is sitting on it, it matters who is in charge of refining and distribution.
The US is still the largest market for the stuff and whoever sits on it is going to sell it to us, given the world markets trade in dollars- UNLESSS it's the chinese. Iraq was chosen as a counter balance to China - geopolitically - and to stick a finger in the eye of Iran probably too..
- ********0
What would the bullshit reasoning for going into Nigeria be?
Iraq was easier to justify to stupid Americans.
mrdobolina
(Jun 29 05, 13:30)the genocide going on in africa right now.
bush can say we need to go in there, take control of the oil and put a stop to the genocide in africa.
sure the genocide is in sudan but if it's true that most americans (so i'm told) can't find iraq on a map how the fuck they gonna be able to tell the difference in nigeria and sudan on a map of africa. i mean shit... you ever seen the size of africa!?!
- ********0
Not to say that some dumbass 20th century idea of geopolotics is worth fighting and dying over..seems that money'd be better spent on you know really developing alternate fuels so that the damn stuff doesn't matter..
But the longer the US controls the distribution - and the world markets use floating currencies and the US is the standard - wel lthis shit will just go on...
- ********0
N. Korea who openly claim to have nuclear weapons, why was Iraq attacked? oh yes i forget cause they apparently had WMD, i guess those WMD have disappeared somewhere in the desert now.
cosmo
(Jun 29 05, 13:40)where is the timeline cause iraq war happened way sooner than n.korea say *in bad asian voice 'we have nuclear weapons. bow before us round eye!'
- ********0
You think beating an insurgency in Iraq is hard? Imagine one in Nigeria, or Angola (ask the portuguese about that) or Algeirs (ask the French)...Just look at Somalia today...Ever see black Hawk Down? It'd be that bad with tons more casualties than anything going on in Iraq.
People in Iraq have soemthing to lose, keeps the populace more or less sedate and makes them wait and see who does what. In Africa, in lots of places nobody has anything to lose and nothing to fight over of balue to the West..
Africa would be a clusterfuck that would make Ira look like a cakewalk..and try justifying it to the AMerican people.
Americans are great at helping out, but we get mighty righteous and indignant real quick if we think people don't want our help (not saying that our "help" should be appreciated..). Not a lot of calls about going back to help the poor Somalias I hate to say it...
- ********0
lol, kOna....
I was dead sure Sudan was in Asia. You messed me up my friend. :(
and-----
geopolitically - and to stick a finger in the eye of Iran probably too..
TheTick
(Jun 29 05, 13:50)no doubt
- jDs0
I prefer that my country NOT kill innocents over these stupid geopolitical philosphies that justify anything for self-interest, anything for resources.
That shit is for cheesy sim games, the reality of the evolving geopolitical situation will never be as black/white as many suggest.
and JazX - did I do somehting wrong? You no like Canadian Bacon? Sorry if you dont like the stray quote, I was just trying to crack a joke....and I miss John Candy...
My bad.
Now hush.
- ********0
kOna - you gotta remember too that in the mideast we are probably pouring on the pressure to keep Isreal form launching strikes at Iran's nuclear facilities - lord knows what we are traing in back roms for that one...
The N. Koreans got nukes - but so what? China will stomp there ass in a microsecond if they think North Korea is going to threaen the stability of that area of the world. China is just about getting their economy to boom - I am sure they are excerting so much pressure on N Korea to chill it's not even funny...
- -ryan_harrell-0
"Ryan,
Balancing the budget and creating a surplus is good for the dollar and good for foreign investment. Clinton did that. "I would have to disagree and say the technology boom coupled with increasted goverment spending and the lowering of the interest rate by my hero Alan Greenspan "did that"
- jDs0
- ********0
Whoa, whoa, TheTick, I agree with most of what you are saying partner, I never said it would easy. A guerilla African fighter is one mean SOB, and yep, nothing much to lose and much tougher than any Iraqi fighter I've seen. Better equipped at Jungle warfare and such, that's an antirely different style of fighting.
Terra-X comes into play.
That'd be my sister. ;)
But, theoretically, you could spin it. People know about the atrocities that happened. All you'd have to do is open that can of worms for the public eye.