BIBLE
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- discipler0
What is meant by Genesis 32:30 when Jacob said, "I have seen the face of God?" We know that in John 1:18, Jesus refers to what God told Moses here in Exodus, that no man has seen the face of God; and yet, there are other passages in the Word of God that mention someone seeing God. This, of course, is dealing with a theophany, or really, a spiritual seeing of the face of God, but not in all of His glory. In the same chapter (Exodus 33) where God said, "There shall no man see my face and live," the Bible also says, "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face as a man speaketh unto a friend. So here again this has to be dealing with a spiritual seeing of the face of God, and it is not contradictory."
Moses certainly was in God's presence, just as he was in His presence when he walked up on Mt. Sinai and saw the bush burning. Although he did not see God, he saw the effects (the burning bush) and knew the relationship of God, as God said, "Take off your shoes, you are on holy ground." So, here is an instance of God supposedly meeting someone "face to face." Also, in Deuteronomy, it says, "The Lord make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee, and lift up His covenants unto thee." Certainly, God's Word says no man has seen His face, so what we are dealing with here is not only a physical and personal relationship with a man, because Genesis 32:24 says very simply, And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. Now, it doesn't say that God wrestled with Jacob. This could have been an angel, a theophany, or a preincarnate appearance of Jesus Christ, wrestling with him. Jacob was wrestling with God spiritually, as well as physically. So, certainly, when God had dealt with him through this wrestling match, if you will, and when God had not only crippled him, but also healed him, this is when Jacob said, "I have seen God face to face." It did not mean that he had literally looked into his face, but that he had met with Him in a very personal way.
- Mimio0
Discipler,
If someone walking down the street says "Hi, I'm Rex"
and in truth they're not really Rex.
Logical people call them liars. You're also now contradiction yourself, earlier you said Jesus was 100% God and 100% percent man. Did you change your mind?
- plastipop0
mim i respect your views, although i disagree with them. but go back to rev 22 again, just to say "it's a condradiction" really misses the point. the question isn't one of contradiction. was Jesus who he said he was? i think i would start there. and until i can answer that, nothing else really matters or will really make any sence anyway... and i would say the bible is just another nice religious book if Jesus claims aren't true. flat out...
- Mimio0
Discipler,
What bible passage defines "Theophanies"?
- discipler0
Mimio,
Jesus was fully God and fully man as the Bible teaches. Just as John 1:18 says, that "God the one and only, has revealed him." (Note: "God the one and only"). Jesus revealed the triune God's invisible attributes.
Where's the contradiction?
mrdob, I don't see how that's condescending. I think you just don't like what i have to say. Besides, you are quite frequently beyond condescending and straight up insulting. Don't be the pot that calls the the kettle black. :)
- mrdobolina0
I dont have a book that defines my morals, I can say whatever the hell I want to.
- discipler0
Mimio, read my explanation of Theophanies above... that will explain it. It's simply a term used to describe a Biblical principle. Just like you won't find the words "Bible", "Trinity" or "Grandfather" in the Bible.
- discipler0
heh, when in doubt... dodge.
- Mimio0
Discipler,
Like I keep saying how can something be fully one thing(God in the flesh) but simultaneaously immaterial(God the spirit). That distinction in itself is two separate entities.
- Dr_Jay0
I love these discipler threads...
Whoever mentioned the arthurian legends earlier nailed it. It's taking actual people and wrapping myths around them.
I kept thinking "vampires" when I was reading all of disciplers "logic"... There's are very detailed myths about vampires with their own logic and rules... and some people think the myths started because of an actual person... http://goeasteurope.about.com/cs…
It must be nice to know THE truth.
- discipler0
Let me just sum up by saying that what Mimio is trying to do is to point out deep and somewhat complex theological principles that take time and the consideration of multiple passages of scripture (in proper context) and to try to discredit the Bible by showing apparent contradictions. Principles like the Theophany and Christophany cannot be explained, nor explained away, by citing a couple of "proof texts" without considering the whole panoply of scripture.
- plastipop0
back to the original question. i like the bible. i've read it the whole thing many times, but only straight through twice. i think it's not only an immensely important book eternally speaking, historically it flat-out has been the most influential book on typesetting, typography, printing, pretty much the very foundation of graphic design. in terms of foundation, the bible cannot be minimized.
- discipler0
Mimio, I have no idea how God was able to clothe himself in human flesh. It's pretty amazing. I like how the Bible describes it...
Phillipians CH. 2 -
"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death–
even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father."
- mrdobolina0
discipler have you EVER been involved in a discussion on nt that didnt revolve around religion? You should change your name to creepy_crusader.
- Mimio0
Discipler,
Let me explain what you are trying to do. You are trying to use borrowed Chrstian Apologetic theology to re-contextualize statements made in plain language in the bible in order to repair blatant contradictions in a flawed text.
- discipler0
yes, Dr Jay... a shame how all those brilliant scientists, scholars, authors and thinkers out there, who believe just as i do, and have made contributions to science, literature, etc... in ways that go well beyond what we will ever accomplish, have bought into a big myth... a big fat fairy tale.
Please inform them at once!!!
- gabriel20
here ya go, dobs:
demo reel tutorials?
Is there a tutorial specifically about creating demo reels, namely some of the more popular techniques, using AE?Thanks for any help here.
discipler
(Oct 21 04, 12:59)I believe that's the only one...
- Mimio0
Same with those scholars and thinkers who call it intellectually dishonest and pure mythology.
- mrdobolina0
Dude, I don't go to bible forums and strictly talk about actionscript.
- discipler0
Mimio, the burden of proof lies with you... show me the flaws! Please!
...and I will show you a misunderstanding of how to read the Bible. Most of which fall under Bible Study 101 as far as Hermeneutics go. Again, 1 or 2 "proof texts" and you've got yourself a cult. That's not how to approach principles of scripture like these.