Christian & Catholic
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- ********0
oh by the way discpler
i looked further into the Gilgamesh epic. And as i already knew, it was recorded 4,000bc (and was orally told a lot longer than that) and it came 3000 years before Abraham, and hence well before noah. And that story explicitly records the tale of a great flood and Gilgamesh building a boat to save all the animals. Told by the ancient mesopotamians. They predate the peeps of Judae by a longshot.
But of course you'll tell me noah and adam and steve were around like 10,000 years ago (that's like the ice age right?) or that carbon dating is inaccurate, or that "no no no, that's a different story. Noah ACTUALLY happened".
I'm gonna return to my solipsist comfort blanket
*must unthink discipler
- GeorgiePorgie0
If a man hits a manservant or maidservant in the eye and destroys it, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the eye.
Exodus 21:25
- Ell0
If a man hits a manservant or maidservant in the eye and destroys it, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the eye.
Exodus 21:25
that's fair enough
- moondog0
If a man hits a manservant or maidservant in the eye and destroys it, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the eye.
Exodus 21:25
GeorgiePorgie(Mar 24 05, 07:11)
*sticks fork up georgie's heiney
- ********0
are you all playing now?
i'm still serious!!!!!!
- GeorgiePorgie0
"They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt! They beat me, but I don't feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?"
Proverbs 23:34
- _smk0
Gilgamesh stuff all true Kes - I'll back you up...
*hopes no-one calls him out on that...
- ********0
aye _smk, i brought gilgamesh last week when i was dissin' (hehe) noah's ark wiv discipler. Then he proceeded to list scientist who believed in god. I was like wtf?
- _smk0
I know my son - he knows not what he says etc etc.
I just saw on The Tele last night - that's where go for The Truth :)
- GeorgiePorgie0
Now you got it, my son :)
- _smk0
Baptise my ass BITCH!
:)
- GeorgiePorgie0
I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Matthew 3:10
- ********0
haha, yes, the tele. Fountain of all knowledge.
I always wanted to read the Gilgamesh epic. It like this king who goes mad and then wonders the desert. William Blake did this mad illustration of him, whilst high on opium
mad innit?
- _smk0
hmmm, ginger mesopotamian, huh?
I always wanted to read it too - is it a horrible dry read in reality though?
I have read (most of) Herodotus I have to say, so my concept of a "dry read" is fairly well developed...
- ********0
I'd suspect it is. But i'm sure there's and abrdiged LadyBird edition somewhere.
- discipler0
Surprisingly, I'm actually going to respond to you, Kes. For the edification of honest onlookers, of course...
Genesis Flood Account is older:
It makes more sense that Genesis was the original and the pagan myths arose as distortions of that original account. While Moses lived long after the event, he probably acted as the editor of far older sources. For example, Genesis 10:19 gives matter-of-fact directions, ‘as you go toward Sodom and Gomorrah and Admah and Zeboiim’. These were the cities of the plain God destroyed for their extreme wickedness 500 years before Moses. Yet Genesis gives directions at a time when they were well-known landmarks, not buried under the Dead Sea.
It is common to make legends out of historical events, but not history from legends. For instance, in Genesis, God’s judgment is just, he is patient with mankind for 120 years (Genesis 6:3), shows mercy to Noah, and is sovereign. Conversely, the gods in the Gilgamesh Epic are capricious and squabbling, cower at the Flood and are famished without humans to feed them sacrifices. That is, the human writers of the Gilgamesh Epic rewrote the true account, and made their gods in their own image.
The whole Gilgamesh-derivation theory is based on the discredited Documentary Hypothesis. This assumes that the Pentateuch was compiled by priests during the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BC. But the internal evidence shows no sign of this, and every sign of being written for people who had just come out of Egypt. The Eurocentric inventors of the Documentary Hypothesis, such as Julius Wellhausen, thought that writing hadn’t been invented by Moses’ time. But many archaeological discoveries of ancient writing show that this is ludicrous.
All people groups remember a global Flood:
Critics often claim that the Gilgamesh epic was embellished from a severe river flood, i.e. a local flood. This might work if there were similar flood legends only around the ancient near east. But there are thousands of such flood legends all around the world:
The Gilgamesh Epic has close parallels with the account of Noah’s Flood. Its close similarities are due to its closeness to the real event. However, there are major differences as well. Everything in the Epic, from the gross polytheism to the absurd cubical ark, as well as the worldwide flood legends, shows that the Genesis account is the original, while the Gilgamesh Epic is a distortion.
- ********0
dude.
We go back to your theories without empirical evidence innit?
cos it's like "Moses told the story of noah, it coulda happened at ANY time"
I quite like the idea of this guy 5,000bc who'd managed to engineer a bough big enough to house every species on the planet and float in on water, like 7 thousand years before the engineering knowledge existed to do such a thing.
Oh wait, it was an act of god right?
hehehe
- discipler0
Kes, if you are interested in doing some study about how God provided the exact sea-worthy dimensions as recorded in Genesis in the Bible, you can do so here:
- GeorgiePorgie0
Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Kes.
Genesis 6:9
;)
- ********0
sorry, why does it make more sense that Genesis is older??
how can you say Moses probably acted as the editor of far older sources?
u lost me somewhee, so you're saying that the flood happened 500years before moses? that was under the egyptian empire which was at it's height between 1000-500bc? that's still 4000 years after the Gilgamesh epic (proven by a written clay tablet from that era)
and how can you possibly substantiate this?
"It is common to make legends out of historical events, but not history from legends. For instance, in Genesis, God’s judgment is just, he is patient with mankind for 120 years (Genesis 6:3), shows mercy to Noah, and is sovereign. Conversely, the gods in the Gilgamesh Epic are capricious and squabbling, cower at the Flood and are famished without humans to feed them sacrifices. That is, the human writers of the Gilgamesh Epic rewrote the true account, and made their gods in their own image."
I'm sorry writing was invented by the messopotamians 4,000bc - what the fuck are YOU talking about?
and then you start going off on tangents. You have an inability to talk about one thing.
idiot.
"All people groups remember a global Flood:" - and you can't just make stuff up!