Christian & Catholic
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- Mimio0
Exactly Kes,
It's called mythology. People believe it because it makes them feel better.Let's see some evidence for creationsim first before we even consider it anything more than a fantasy.
- ********0
discipler i read that website thoroughtly when you last posted it. And believe me, it was laughaable to say the LEAST.
- ********0
thing about evolution is that it IS a scientific theory. But the thing about SCIENTIFIC theories is that they have to be proven by testable facts. And evolution HAS been proven by testable facts (i.e if evolution is true - then i believe such and such would happen).
Thing with creationism is like, here's a theory - you can't prove or disprove it either way, so it's as good as ANY theory.
Bit like my solipcism
- discipler0
Mimio, let me repost what I wrote this morning...
Wow... I'm amazed how many people buy into the relatively new faith called "Evolution" and even speak of it as fact (when it doesn't even qualify as a scientific theory) without batting an eye or doing an honest objective study of it's claims, or the the claims of it's alternative, Intelligent Design (and Creationism). There is a pervading pseudo-intellectuali ty here that is disturbing to say the least.
Let me share some facts that may hopefully spur some honest seekers to do a thoughtful and objective study of origins. Those who vehemently adhere to an evolutionary model for origins do so without bothering to either take a hard look at some of evolution's assumptions, or to wrestle with the real problems that it faces. They have accepted evolution on the basis of authority, because their professors or academic gurus told them so - a kind of faith. Consider as well the very brief time this belief has been around.
It should be noted that Intelligent Design does not ignore the variation and range of adaptibility displayed by living organisms. What it does posit is that the range of adaptibility of organisms is finite. The genome of a dog yields a tremendous range of phenotypical expression, from Chihuahuas to Great Danes... but at the end of the day, they are both still dogs, not cats. And this is exactly what science actually observes. No scientist has ever seen a dog become something other than a dog, or vice-versa. Louis Pasteur's famous observation, that life only comes from life, has never been disproved. His experiments have already falsified all claims that life originated from primordial goo, but philosophical considerations - not facts, not science - prevent this from being accepted by evolutionists. So, which model of origins requires more faith?
What honest seekers need to learn about is such biochemical marvels as the clotting cascade, the chemistry of vision, the bacterial flagellum, and countless others, and decide which hypothesis better explains what is observed, random evolution? or, a creative intelligent guiding force? For biochemical "machines" to function, you must first have all the parts available. Evolution cannot exert selective pressures on something that is non-functioning in the first place. The common sense behind this observation should be manifest to every person who does not have an episemological axe to grind.
Here is a question so fundamental to biological life that it is a wonder that evolution has yet to explain it: if the mechanism by which a trait is inhereted is that it conveys a survival advantage to the possessor, then why are we not all self-fertile hermaphrodites, like earthworms? Dimorphic sexuality - male and female - has no reason to ever arise under evolution since every organism would already have within itself the seeds of its own survival.
Intelligent Design and Creationism is not about illegitimately imposing the dictates of faith upon science, but about raising rational objections to proposed Darwinian explanations of the biological world.
Some specific points to further research, which demonstrate the devastating holes in macro evolution are...
1. The complete lack of transitional fossils between species. The record only contains fully formed species. Consistent with the genome explanation above.
2. The tension between Evolution and Entropy (The Second Law of Thermodynamics). A proven scientific law which states that the universe is breaking down... decaying, if you will. This flies in the face of the macro evolutionary model. The open/closed system arguement has been shown to not hold any water either.
3. Closed experiments intended to generate life via heated pools with electrical charges, etc... have failed miserably, producing nothing that could generate human cells. (See Pasteur's experiments.
)4. Evolution's inability to account for human emotion, the desire to love and be loved and express compassion.
There are countless other foundation crumbling problems with evolution, but I think this post is lengthy enough. And as for the Big Bang - perfectly consistent with the creation model. By posulating it you only push the issue of origins a step back. Who initiated said, Big Bang?
- opiate0
"God provided the exact sea-worthy dimensions "...
Bwahahahahhahahahaa! That article is Pure gold. I am truely afraid of people that believe that crap.
Maybe God can give me some art direction on this poster I am doing.
- GeorgiePorgie0
God has filled them with skill to do all kinds of work as craftsmen, designers, embroiderers in blue, purple and scarlet yarn and fine linen, and weavers-all of them master craftsmen and designers.
Exodus 35:34
- ********0
first of all, human emotion can easily be proven by evolution - as a way to help human society form and exist and function and survive.
second
here's a whole list of hominid fossils:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/…
thirdly you completely misunderstand the 2nd law of thermodynamics. As this website explains
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/…
and fourthly just because scientist have not yet managed to generate life via whatever, doesn't prove shit. Just because no-one had split the atom until the 50s didn't mean einsteins theories on energy were false.
- ********0
"God provided the exact sea-worthy dimensions "...
Bwahahahahhahahahaa! That article is Pure gold. I am truely afraid of people that believe that crap.
Maybe God can give me some art direction on this poster I am doing.
opiate
(Mar 24 05, 07:52)
==============it';s a funny read innit opiate?
discpler honestly thinks we're idiots.
- Mimio0
Discipler,
I read it the first time. Let me recommend a book by Richard Dawkins "The Blind Watchmaker" because you obviously don't have a grasp on what evolutionary theory is saying or the mechanisms in action.
- ********0
Dawkins is brilliant. I recommend him to anyone.
- opiate0
He's making a list, He's checking it twice....
http://shop4.gospelcom.net/isroo…
wait a sec. Do I see Brauntosaurus?
- moondog0
don't let this bag o' bollocks reach 200, y'all. kes, go read that benjamin that gaberz posted (
- ********0
yes but these scientists are all creationists! are they kooks??
Dr L Ooney B.Sc M.A
Prof S. Tupid M.Phil M.Sc
Dr C.R. Ackpot B.A M.A G.AY
Prof. M. Adetc...
- discipler0
Dawkins attempt was put to rest in Phillip's book, "Wedge of Truth" - a must read for the objective seeker (not to mention countless other books).
Kes,
Emotion - Feeble attempt at explaining why we express emotion. I'm afraid that doesn't work. You didn't provide an explanation of how macro evolution sufficiently explains it. It cannot.
Entropy - the isolated systems argument as outlined in your talk origins article has already been put to rest. Read: http://www.answersingenesis.org/…
Transitional Fossils - Creationism has no problem with Hominid fossils (in the incomplete states that they are in). Hominids were animals that did exist and fit with Creation model of origins. What you don't realize is that not a single transitional fossil has been found. Only fully formed species. Documented fact. Only evidence of micro - adaptational changes can be supported. Again, which fit in just swell with the Creation model.
- ********0
where moondog where?
who's gaberz?
- Mimio0
Sorry Discipler,
I take my science from scientists, not from religious zealot lawyers like Strobel and Philips.
- discipler0
Are there scientists alive today who accept the biblical account of creation?...
* Dr James Allan, Geneticist
* Dr Steve Austin, Geologist
* Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
* Dr Thomas Barnes, Physicist
* Dr Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
* Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
* Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
* Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
* Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
* Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
* Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
* Dr David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
* Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
* Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
* Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
* Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
* Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
* Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
* Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
* Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
* Dr Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
* Dr Bob Compton, DVM
* Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
* Dr Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
* Dr William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
* Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
* Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
* Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
* Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
* Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
* Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
* Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
* Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
* Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
* Dr Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
* Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
* Dr André Eggen, Geneticist
* Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
* Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
* Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
* Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
* Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
* Dr Paul Giem, Medical Research
* Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
* Dr Duane Gish, Biochemist
* Dr Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
* Dr Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
* Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
* Dr Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
* Dr Barry Harker, Philosopher
* Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
* Dr John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
* Dr George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
* Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
* Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineer
* Dr Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
* Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
* Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
* Dr Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
* Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
* Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
* Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
* Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
* Dr Russell Humphreys, Physicist
* Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
* George T. Javor, Biochemistry
* Dr Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
* Dr Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
* Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
* Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
* Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
* Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
* Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
* Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
* Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
* Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
* Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
* Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
* Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
* Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
* Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
* Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
* Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
* Prof. John Lennox, Mathematics
* Dr John Leslie, Biochemist
* Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
* Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
* Dr Alan Love, Chemist
* Dr Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
* Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
* Dr George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
* Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
* Dr John McEwan, Chemist
* Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
* Dr David Menton, Anatomist
* Dr Angela Meyer: Creationist Plant Physiologist
* Dr John Meyer , Physiologist
* Dr John N. Moore, Science Educator
* Dr Henry M. Morris, Hydrologist
* Dr John D. Morris, Geologist
* Dr Len Morris, Physiologist
* Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
* Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
* Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
* Dr David Oderberg, Philosopher
* Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
* Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
* Dr John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
* Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
* Dr Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
* Dr David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
* Prof. Richard Porter
* Dr John Rankin, Cosmologist
* Dr A.S. Reece, M.D.
* Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
* Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
* Dr David Rosevear, Chemist
* Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
* Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
* Dr Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
* Dr Ian Scott, Educator
* Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
* Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
* Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
* Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
* Dr Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
* Dr Roger Simpson, Engineer
* Dr Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
* Dr Andrew Snelling , Geologist
* Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
* Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
* Prof. James Stark , Assistant Professor of Science Education
* Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
* Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
* Dr Charles Taylor, Linguistics
* Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
* Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
* Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
* Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
* Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
* Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
* Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
* Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
* Dr Keith Wanser, Physicist
* Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
* Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
* Dr Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
* Dr Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
* Dr Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
* Dr Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
* Dr Bryant Wood, Creationist Archaeologist
* Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
* Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
* Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
* Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
* Dr Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
* Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
* Dr Henry Zuill, BiologyWhich scientists of the past believed in a Creator?
Note: These scientists are sorted by birth year.
EarlyFrancis Bacon (1561–1626) Scientific method. However, see also
Culture Wars:
1. Part 1: Bacon vs Ham
2. Part 2: Ham vs Bacon
* Johann Kepler (1571–1630) (WOH) Scientific astronomy
* Athanasius Kircher (1601–1680) Inventor
* John Wilkins (1614–1672)
* Walter Charleton (1619–1707) President of the Royal College of Physicians
* Blaise Pascal (biography page) and article from Creation magazine (1623–1662) Hydrostatics; Barometer
* Sir William Petty (1623 –1687) Statistics; Scientific economics
* Robert Boyle (1627–1691) (WOH) Chemistry; Gas dynamics
* John Ray (1627–1705) Natural history
* Isaac Barrow (1630–1677) Professor of Mathematics
* Nicolas Steno (1631–1686) Stratigraphy
* Thomas Burnet (1635–1715) Geology
* Increase Mather (1639–1723) Astronomy
* Nehemiah Grew (1641–1712) Medical Doctor, BotanyThe Age of Newton
* Isaac Newton (1642–1727) (WOH) Dynamics; Calculus; Gravitation law; Reflecting telescope; Spectrum of light (wrote more about the Bible than science, and emphatically affirmed a Creator. Some have accused him of Arianism, but it’s likely he held to a heterodox form of the Trinity—See Pfizenmaier, T.C., Was Isaac Newton an Arian? Journal of the History of Ideas 68(1):57–80, 1997)
* Gottfried Wilhelm Leibnitz (1646–1716) Mathematician
* John Flamsteed (1646–1719) Greenwich Observatory Founder; Astronomy
* William Derham (1657–1735) Ecology
* Cotton Mather (1662–1727) Physician
* John Harris (1666–1719) Mathematician
* John Woodward (1665–1728) Paleontology
* William Whiston (1667–1752) Physics, Geology
* John Hutchinson (1674–1737) Paleontology
* Johathan Edwards (1703–1758) Physics, Meteorology
* Carolus Linneaus (1707–1778) Taxonomy; Biological classification system
* Jean Deluc (1727–1817) Geology
* Richard Kirwan (1733–1812) Mineralogy
* William Herschel (1738–1822) Galactic astronomy; Uranus (probably believed in an old-earth)
* James Parkinson (1755–1824) Physician (old-earth compromiser*)
* John Dalton (1766–1844) Atomic theory; Gas law
* John Kidd, M.D. (1775–1851) Chemical synthetics (old-earth compromiser*)Just Before Darwin
* The 19th Century Scriptural Geologists, by Dr Terry Mortenson
* Timothy Dwight (1752–1817) Educator
* William Kirby (1759–1850) Entomologist
* Jedidiah Morse (1761–1826) Geographer
* Benjamin Barton (1766–1815) Botanist; Zoologist
* John Dalton (1766–1844) Father of the Modern Atomic Theory; Chemistry
* Georges Cuvier (1769–1832) Comparative anatomy, paleontology (old-earth compromiser*)
* Samuel Miller (1770–1840) Clergy
* Charles Bell (1774–1842) Anatomist
* John Kidd (1775–1851) Chemistry
* Humphrey Davy (1778–1829) Thermokinetics; Safety lamp
* Benjamin Silliman (1779–1864) Mineralogist (old-earth compromiser*)
* Peter Mark Roget (1779–1869) Physician; Physiologist
* Thomas Chalmers (1780–1847) Professor (old-earth compromiser*)
* David Brewster (1781–1868) Optical mineralogy, Kaleidoscope (probably believed in an old-earth)
* William Buckland (1784–1856) Geologist (old-earth compromiser*)
* William Prout (1785–1850) Food chemistry (probably believed in an old-earth)
* Adam Sedgwick (1785–1873) Geology (old-earth compromiser*)
* Michael Faraday (1791–1867) (WOH) Electro magnetics; Field theory, Generator
* Samuel F.B. Morse (1791–1872) Telegraph
* John Herschel (1792–1871) Astronomy (old-earth compromiser*)
* Edward Hitchcock (1793–1864) Geology (old-earth compromiser*)
* William Whewell (1794–1866) Anemometer (old-earth compromiser*)
* Joseph Henry (1797–1878) Electric motor; GalvanometerJust After Darwin
* Richard Owen (1804–1892) Zoology; Paleontology (old-earth compromiser*)
* Matthew Maury (1806–1873) Oceanography, Hydrography (probably believed in an old-earth*)
* Louis Agassiz (1807–1873) Glaciology, Ichthyology (old-earth compromiser, polygenist*)
* Henry Rogers (1808–1866) Geology
* James Glaisher (1809–1903) Meteorology
* Philip H. Gosse (1810–1888) Ornithologist; Zoology
* Sir Henry Rawlinson (1810–1895) Archeologist
* James Simpson (1811–1870) Gynecology, Anesthesiology
* James Dana (1813–1895) Geology (old-earth compromiser*)
* Sir Joseph Henry Gilbert (1817–1901) Agricultural Chemist
* James Joule (1818–1889) Thermodynamics
* Thomas Anderson (1819–1874) Chemist
* Charles Piazzi Smyth (1819–1900) Astronomy
* George Stokes (1819–1903) Fluid Mechanics
* John William Dawson (1820–1899) Geology (probably believed in an old-earth*)
* Rudolph Virchow (1821–1902) Pathology
* Gregor Mendel (1822–1884) (WOH) Genetics
* Louis Pasteur (1822–1895) (WOH) Bacteriology, Biochemistry; Sterilization; Immunization
* Henri Fabre (1823–1915) Entomology of living insects
* William Thompson, Lord Kelvin (1824–1907) Energetics; Absolute temperatures; Atlantic cable (believed in an older earth than the Bible indicates, but far younger than the evolutionists wanted*)
* William Huggins (1824–1910) Astral spectrometry
* Bernhard Riemann (1826–1866) Non-Euclidean geometries
* Joseph Lister (1827–1912) Antiseptic surgery
* Balfour Stewart (1828–1887) Ionospheric electricity
* James Clerk Maxwell (1831–1879) (WOH) Electrodynamics; Statistical thermodynamics
* P.G. Tait (1831–1901) Vector analysis
* John Bell Pettigrew (1834–1908) Anatomist; Physiologist
* John Strutt, Lord Rayleigh (1842–1919) Similitude; Model Analysis; Inert Gases
* Sir William Abney (1843–1920) Astronomy
* Alexander MacAlister (1844–1919) Anatomy
* A.H. Sayce (1845–1933) Archeologist
* John Ambrose Fleming (1849–1945) Electronics; Electron tube; Thermionic valveThe Modern Period
* Dr Clifford Burdick, Geologist
* George Washington Carver (1864–1943) Inventor
* L. Merson Davies (1890–1960) Geology; Paleontology
* Douglas Dewar (1875–1957) Ornithologist
* Howard A. Kelly (1858–1943) Gynecology
* Paul Lemoine (1878–1940) Geology
* Dr Frank Marsh, Biology
* Dr John Mann, Agriculturist, biological control pioneer
* Edward H. Maunder (1851–1928) Astronomy
* William Mitchell Ramsay (1851–1939) Archeologist
* William Ramsay (1852–1916) Isotopic chemistry, Element transmutation
* Charles Stine (1882–1954) Organic Chemist
* Dr Arthur Rendle-Short (1885–1955) Surgeon
* Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892–1979) Surgeon
* Dr Larry Butler, Biochemist
* Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997)
* Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915–1995) Three science doctorates; a creation science pioneerIs there a list of those who are against the biblical view of creation?
* A Who’s Who of Evolutionists
* What’s wrong with Bishop Spong?
* Q&A: Countering the CriticsAre there other biographies and interviews of interest?
* David Aikman, journalist
* Basil of Caesarea
* Hillmon Buckingham, Salvation Army Commissioner
* Calvin says: Genesis means what it says
* Steve Cardno, Creation Magazine art director
* Betty Cuthbert, Olympic champion
* Buddy Davis, sculptor, singer
* Ralph DiCosimo, police officer
* Pete Dobré, creationist photographer
* Carol Drew, Creation photographer
* Chang-Sha Fang, plant scientist
* Jim Farquhar, geologist
* Sergei Golovin, geophysicist
* Russell Grigg
* David and Doreen Hart
* Johnny Hart, cartoonist
* Robert Jensen, photographer
* Dr Douglas Kelly, academic theologian
* Dan Lietha, cartoonist
* Dr George Lindsey, associate professor of science education
* Martin Lloyd-Jones, evangelist
* Prof. Marvin Lubenow, anthropology
* Luther on Evolution, and What was Martin Luther’s stand on Creation/Evolution? (Christian Answers Network)
* Lou Moss, photographer
* Michael Oard, atmospheric scientist
* Jules H Poirier, design engineer
* Gary Raymond, law enforcement
* Peter and Cathy Sparrow, Creation Bus
* Prof. Hannington Enoch, zoologist, ‘The man who got me hunting down evolution!’ by David C.C. Watson, author of Myths and Miracles
* Dr John Whitcomb, theologian
* John Woodmorappe, geologist
- Mimio0
Haha..the copy+paste apostle strikes again.
- GeorgiePorgie0
you forgot one.
*Dr. Father GeorgiePorgie, Ordained Internet Scientist and Biblical Babbler
_badup dum!
- mrdobolina0
http://news.nationalgeographic.c…
people who don't believe in evolution haven't evolved.
discipler how about a design-related topic for once?