CG Underground
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- Bunkum0
Oh my XXXC, suddenly everything is Evil! :)
- rabattski0
hey bunkum, i think you're mixing up facts. marketing is actually very very old. for instance the romans used marketing for gladiator games. that's just one example.
you must not forget that people create a living out of selling what they can make. now they are not unique in that, there are more selling the same stuff, so you have to set yourself apart, that's where's marketing is for. that has always been there since people sell stuff.
now what you say "Business only seems to have totally embraced Marketing in the last decade or so" has more to do with the fact that there's a huge increase in competition and that products are becoming more equal. there are no real differences in product quality and price. in general. so the only way to set yourself apart from the competition is for instance using brandbuilding. that is what has been increasing in the last decade.
marketing is creativity as well.
- rabattski0
So why can't it be possible that Creatives will take the lead in the next decade or so?
very simple, creativity is the right brain lobe, business is the left brain lobe. that plus i don't think creatives would step up and take the responsibilty for an entire company, they rather stick with what they're good at and that's making stuff looking good.
- keiTai0
rabattski, it is.
- Bunkum0
I'm like sub-expert on Marketing as a science (I only know what I experience as a 'consumer') but we did touch on it whilest I was studying (back when dinosaurs ruled the earth) and 'modern marketing (what's happening now)' seems more about talking the language of business than selling products.
Another thought: Does Marketing retard companies from making better products?
- keiTai0
btw. even word-of-mouth is marketing. "Best" example of marketing over the years........ the bible.
- clone0
As EBN put it: "We participate in our own manipulation"
- waynepixel0
Respond
hey bunkum, i think you're mixing up facts. marketing is actually very very old. for instance the romans used marketing for gladiator games. that's just one example.
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Hahahahaah. I think you might find that it was Betting that was going on. Not Marketing. Hahahahahah.
- rabattski0
well yeah it's not really selling the product anymore in most cases, although the product still has to be good, you know no matter how good your salespitch will be if it can't be matched with the product it won't succeed at all. anyways, it's more about selling a "feeling", you know brandbuilding and such but that has more to do with the fact that they need to set themself apart from their competition. and they can't do that anymore on quality and/or price. know what i mean? and if you look really closely you'll even see that people are willing to pay extra for a brand, for a feeling.
can marketing make better products? yeah for sure because part of marketing is finding out what your customers wants and needs are. marketing has lead to the invention of the cd player for instance.
- rabattski0
no they were marketing the games because they wanted all the people there to keep them occupied and not having them running around contemplating revolutions etc. no, bread and games. that's what is still done.
- clone0
Another thought: Does Marketing retard companies from making better products?
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yes look at Apple it made the ipod shuffle a product without the battery life or storage of the ipod but they needed to create a product in a particular price range to stifle competition and increase profits. if you live in SF and have been downtown you can see where thier blanket marketing of posters on the street has become an eyesore as well
- Bunkum0
I severly doubt a Marketeer helped develop the CD Player. I totally believe they invented the story that they did through the magic of market testing.
I'm sorry but Design and Creativity can live outside 'Markets' and 'Marketing', 'marketing' can only attach itself to these ideas.
- rabattski0
duh. a marketeer didn't develop the cd player. marketing isn't really rocket science now is it? but marketing researched the needs, which was a scratchfree longer durable medium which lead to the cd invention. so marketing was just a part of it as the actual invention was. and that's a fact btw. and no there was no market testing for that.
anyways, marketing can be used for good and evil. but i'm always surprised that almost every creative thinks it's evil while for most of them their living depends on it. dunno, sometimes it just looks like people think it's cool to say it's evil without even knowing what they're talking about.
- Bunkum0
Marketing affects our daily lives whether we like it or not so I don't know how you can say that we shouldn't make comment on it if we dont know enough about it.
Were fucking living and breathing it, man! There's no choice in the matter. And that CD invention story is so lame. That's logic you're talking about not maketing.
- rabattski0
dude, what's your problem? i for sure get the idea you're not understanding fully what i'm saying. where do i say that no one is allowed to comment on it? no where, i was just merely pointing out that it's haute to be "against" marketing because it's cool to be against it. anyways, that i don't really care about.
now that last bit you wrote shows exactly that you have no clue whatsoever what marketing exactly is. as said before, research of your consumers needs and wants is a part of marketing as well. so that analogy is far removed from being lame. hell you don't even know the case let alone who did the research.
anyways, it shows that you're on of those haute kids without a clue.
- clone0
Just because its cool and in to be against marketing doesnt mean you should dismiss anyone that is this thread is beginning to intertwine with designers and Do... the points remain valid and the only way to start change is to change yourself. Unfortunately, due to the clear channel univision ownership of media along with the list of nearly 2000 songs that we will never hear on american radio i can guarantee that we will never see a commercial condemning marketing as it would be a contradiction to the efforts it took it to get there. if radio and tv were as free as the internet the world we live in would be a different place
- Bunkum0
Hey, I'm no 'Haute kid™' although I like the lingo (I'm too old for a start). What I am is a consumer and I'm sick of Marketing types assuming they know what I want better than I do and that they own creativity when they only thing I see produced by large companies employing Marketing depts and/or agencies, consultants, whatever is ugly self-satisfied bollocks.
I'm totally willing to accept that Marketing can have a positive effect on creativity but I see no evidence. The CD Player doesn't count.
- rabattski0
then your issue is with marketing people and not marketing itself. that is a whole different issue and then i know exactly where you're coming from.
but you see thru all that so actually you shouldn't be bothered by them or by marketing. or maybe it's that you're bothered because other people don't see it?
the cd player counts hardcore dude! if you like it or not because it is the truth (that was philips btw). but yeah more often with marketing it's a case to make it look better than it actually is.
clone, i don't dismiss anyone, i was calling bunkum a Haute kid™ because he was imho being haute about it because he kept denying certain facts but that is cleared (it's the marketeers that are evil and not necessaraly marketing itself).
- clone0
marketing markets itsself to get the client so the cycle starts before the process ever begins
i hope that made sense
