Serious design issue.
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- octopus0
Yes, this is a serious issue. My business partner and I were just discussing this last ngiht. There are servera problems and only 1 viable solution.
First, as designers and developers we all know the tru value of good design and how it helps business acheive their goals. This is not the issue, discussing this on here is a waste of time.
Now clients know they get what they pay for too. It's not that they don't know what they want, it's that they don't know the difference in good bad design and don't see any sense in paying standard rates while we designers keep lowering rates.
My solution is easy. As designers let leave behind our proud ways of withholding secrets from each other. If we were all able to know what each other is charghing and what the reagional values are, we can all set rates and be competitive. As long as we hide this from each other, we remain in a rat race. If we work together we raise the par on design and we all become higher in demand. Client's will then be educated as to what design is worth.
I have begun to build a design business only discussion forum for business owners and people dedicated to training each other and clients. If you are interested in discussing this furtner please email me at
- canuck0
Rates should be standardized. Graphic Design should be a lisenced profession - like engineers, physicans etc are. But I doubt that will ever happen.
- scottdotexe0
Bad idea. Wanna feel warm & fuzzy about design? Cheap and/or Pro-Bono is only OK for charities in my book - and that's it.
- nRIK0
what about them stupid lil kiddies whos got photoshop and frontpage posing as 'designers'
and other problems, like that EA story [http://www.livejournal.com/user... its shit and what can ya do about it
- nRIK0
- octopus0
I agree. We also need to help support one another who are serious, to get to a better place in the scheme of things.
- lvl_130
". As long as we hide this from each other, we remain in a rat race."
i really have never understood this myself. i have never been one to not discuss what i charge or the amount i was paid for a project.
i really don't see a need for the secrets that go on within any freelance community ... actually any job market. why is it so fucking tabu to not discuss salary or hourly rates?
i ask for what i think is fair...nothing more, nothing less. i don't need to drive a mercedes and live in a 6 bdrm. house on the ocean.
i do what i do because it makes me happy and always keeps me on my toes.
sorry for this long post : ) but to me; as most of you, this is life...and why we live it : )
- jamble0
Being a designer is just a job, we're very lucky in this industry that we all (I hope) enjoy doing it as well because that's a bonus most people don't have with their 9-5 jobs.
You can't standardise the prices in a global market like that, there are too many variables dictating local prices. It's more expensive living in the UK than the US for example.
This industry is governed by supply and demand just like everything else, it's mainly because clients do not have a true grasp on the price of creativity that it's sometimes difficult to understand a quote for work.
If you want to standardise prices and work for less, sign up to E-Lance and compete with Indian or Chinese design agencies or freelancers willing to work for $5/hr.
I will continue to quote per project what I feel I can get away with. I do design because I love it, I switched from a corporate background to a creative one because it's something I love doing but a job that doesn't pay the bills isn't appealing to me.
- fresnobob0
it is not about the money.
- jamble0
how do you pay your bills?
- AMFA0
hahahahahahahahaha
thats funny.
- fresnobob0
"
hahahahahahahahahathats funny.
AMFA(Jan 30 05, 23:59)
"shit. no wonder 99% of all design sucks.... its attitudes like this that make the world a horrible place to live
- gsd0
no chance - it's hard enough getting our clients to pay for what they see as 'quick' jobs - meaning that it's come to a situation where they always want us to do 'quick' jobs and they honestly begrudge paying us for ANY work we do - but we can't get rid of them because we need the dough, because everyone around us is undercutting us and nicking the work. If we started undercutting everyone else we'd be doing 18 hr days for peanuts - we're already on 12hr days as it is for a wage which pays the bills every month, and allows you to travel to work to pay the bills every month...
- Blofeldt0
Has anyone read the document and pwr pont presentation on how good design can positivley effect a companies profits?
The starter of this thread should.
- jamble0
I suspect the thread starter is too busy working for $5/hr to read it!
- stphn0
I lowered my rate a few months ago and started billing hours more acurately and came out about the same, it helped my clients to realize the time it took to work a project as well and they were less pushy as a result. I agree that our fees should be considered carefully with regard to how much time we actually spend on a project, but we should also consider what is actually considered "time" on a project.
- non0
Ok, to all people who think that this is a joke thread, or that I am advocating cheap design, I AM NOT JOKING and I AM NOT ADVOCATING CHEAP DESIGN.
This is just an issue that made me think. What would happen if good and effective design was made FREE so that our society could benefit from it? Would it change the way the majority of people see design? What kind of impacts would it have on our communication habits?
Now don't start talking about the price wormhole issue. I am not speeking about the financial side of things, more of the social impact it would have on our society.
- stphn0
I agree with you non, I do a lot of free work for community groups and family centers and it does make a difference. There are so many good causes out there that suffer from not having a design that speaks for them. I have a deep appreciation for this thread.
- Blofeldt0
I know you're probably expecting this question BUT, how would society pay for all this brilliant free design.
Yes I agree that good design benefits everybody btw
- ********0
who decides what "good" is?