Death Penalty
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- ********0
well i dont think it shud include ideas of economics, and "what is this individuals life worth to society?"
- abizzyman0
well i dont think it shud include ideas of economics, and "what is this individuals life worth to society?"
Kuz
(Dec 13 04, 16:30)****
Kuz.. .it should include these ideas... because his actions (the guilty in need of justice) has affected everyone's life now.
If he hadn't of done this - we as tax-payers wouldn't have to bear the responsibility of this assholes actions. The only thing he has to bear is the consequence of having his life shut off - which is what he did to himself.
The rest of the load falls upon the law-abiding folks such as us. I don't want to pay for this guy's food, clothing, showers, shelter, haircuts, health exams, entertainment, REHABILITATION if need be...
... why do I have to suffer when this guy killed out of lust for another woman... and out of sheer evil and lack of responsibility?
He's not some deranged mental patient who failed to take his lithium and went on a killing spree. He's not a mentally challenged human who suffered and was beaten as a child. He had loving parents (who are still together) and fairly socially and economically stable upbringing.
But this man CHOSE to live selfishly and lustfully - and killed two humans out of his own greed.
I don't want to be a part of his rehabilitation - I don't want to be a part of his 'well-being'. He's not my responsibility - he threw his life away. Not me.. not you.
- ********0
umm no. That's not the reason why those considerations need to be considered.
There are such things as unalienable rights of man which need to be the basis of our socieites. Anything else is pure fascism, because you're saying all individual rights are held in trust by the state. They're not something u are born with.
It's a slippery slope that leads to the kind of thinking that led to the holocaust and Nazism. We make choices everyday that are detremental to society and have perceived negative effects on all of us. From driving SUV's, to selling drugs to kids.
There are many burdens society choses to bear because it has to, simply to protect the sanctity of life. Because society exists for the happiness and well being of us all. It does not exist for it's own sake. To have the most efficient, cost effecitve society there is. For these reasons, there are costs we must collectively bare. Things like economics, and an individuals social value cannot come into the reckoning when dealing with crime and punishment,. They simply can not. Otherwise ALL ethics are meaningless
- ********0
I've decided i'd happily spend my tax paying money on keeping murderers, and rapists alive, just to keep the idea that all life must be nurtured, sacred.....
tho i might change my mind in the morning :{
- abizzyman0
I understand you Kuz... and agree w/most of what you're saying...
... but my point is that when someone breaks the ethical human boundries such as Peterson did - w/out being mentally challenged or a member of society that requires our 'help' to maintain life - what do you do with such a person?
That person now get's a 'free ride' until his said sentencing is carried out.
That may sound far-fetched by using the term 'free ride' as he's bound inside a building and can't move about on the streets freely... but this person isn't someone w/mental issues / problems that keep him from being an active member of society.
He selfishly screwed up... therefor we have to take on the burden due to his disgusting actions.
That's not right.
- ********0
come on abizzy, we take on the selfish burdens of billions and billions and trillions and squillions of people every day.
Those things simply don't come into it when dealing with justice.
However, if you believe in eye for an eye as exemplifying justice, then that's different. That's not an economic/social cost consideration. You just can't use those arguments.
- abizzyman0
I thinks this argument is subjective to each case.
would you agree? or does economic and societal impact not have any effect in 'justice' for this matter.
- ********0
subjective to each case or subject to each case?
and no i don't think economics (and that's all social cost is really with all this tax talk) has any impact on justice.
- -leah-0
responding to post you made way back:
there is a HUGE difference between someone who is mentally handicapped and a murderer (in fact you cant even compare the two) i think you took my post way out of context
- -leah-0
oh that last post by me was directed at kuz!
- ********0
course there's a difference. I'm not denying the difference. Just as there's difference between male and female.
I was extrapolating the social cost theory, which was the argument that was being thrown around as justifying the death penalty. As i have shown, and as unfit said, economics being brought into it destory the very idea humans have rights - and therefore, at a stretch of the imagination, you're putting a cost value on human life. Which then directly relates to retards. I was pointing out the ethical dilema with a certain line of thinking
- BonSeff0
there enlies the insanity loophole
or big budget reasonable doubt defenseits one or the other nowadays
- ********0
he's not gonna die until my son is older
manson is still chillin
- ********0
ppl r just making abig deal abou tthis guy cuz hes white and tehy do have to make sure everythings tied up nice for the lawyers. if he was some minority kid nooone would give a fuck
- g3kk0k1d0
on the death penalty i believe it is a good form of punishment
over a year ago some crackhead with severe mental problems - tried to kill me for a reason i still do not know - i still get flashbacks - he is still wanted by the police and left the country
4 months ago i lost my friend from a stabbing in the neck again a reason that i will never truely know or ever ever understand, the person will prolly get maybe 5 years max cos he gave himself up and admitted it - the fuckers remorse means nothing to me all my family or my friends family
when uve been there u will understand
i want them void
***please note i am serious which is very rare for me
- pascii0
it is so wrong. nobody is allowed to take another humans life. not even a goverment.
g3kk0k1d, i understand your anger, but in my opinion it is wrong - void a life doesn't bring another ones back.
- rabattski0
bummer there's no remote island or something. you know like how the british empire sent convicts to australia long time ago. quite positive actually since it got us crocodile dundee and good animal shows in the long run :)
- lowimpakt0
if he was some minority kid nooone would give a fuck
tara|gee
(Dec 13 04, 23:10)
--------------------------------well I haven't joined the converstaion but I oppose the death penalty and find what you said pretty offensive.
Many of us grew up in countries that had the death penalty but like most normal societies we have progessed morally, ethically and judicially and banned state assissted murder.
- ********0
im saying there are alot of minority ppl who are on deathrow/in jail who cannot afford lawyers to get them out of it
- Icequeen0
Prisons are funded by the taxpayers, so the one benefit of the death penalty is that we don't have to pay for serious criminals to live. The money could be put towards hospitals, aiding poverty or to innocent people that really need it. Maybe a harsh point of view. But then again, not really under the circumstances.