final email
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- swollenelbow0
don, the email has been sent. hahahah =)
ok i was drunk. ok i'm drunk now. but you know what, that still doesn't mean you can treat someone like shit just because you're the client and i'm the designer, fuck that. i put everything on hold to help her out. not FAIR to me.
- swollenelbow0
damn so my shit doesnt work!!!!
- rasp0
maybe your missing the point. its down to you as the designer of the project to tell her how longs things will take (based on whatever else you have on at the time). and also manage that time as best you can.
we all have to work late / shitty hours.. its part of the job. whether we like it or not.
- swollenelbow0
screw you guys... lol
- swollenelbow0
you guys sit here and bitch, that the client this, and the client that and blah wah wah wah poor me, the clinet sucks, but when someone does something about you are all like, oooooooh nooo you're not supposed to act that way, no no you're supposed to suck it up and take it, blah blah...
hypocrites
- po|arunion0
swollen.
you're not seeing the big picture here.
coming from the a general contractors point of view..
have you ever thought that maybe this person has connections to people who may be interrested in your services? talk shit to them will do you more harm then good. give them a reason to talk shit about you, then you'll be sure never to get good press.
you might not like that you've been done over.. it just happened to me actually..
i did a substantial estimate for a man to refinish his basement. a $20,000 renovation.
he liked my price, my references. he chose me. but before i managed to sit him down to the table, get a deposit from him, we had to sort out his foundation problems. so after 5 visits, about $40 in gas and more than a 4 days worth of time, I eventually just stopped hearing from him.
This was a substantial investment of my time in order to secure this project only to find out that he wasn't going to have it done at all.
it's better that i leave with nothing to say than to snap on his ass - which is what i'd love to do. there's still a chance that i might be referred to someone else by him, or that when he makes up his fukin mind that he wants to spend the money he doesn't have in the end, it will go to me hopefully.
think twice and elevate yourself above the subclass. be a professional. it would be good to see more around.
- cola0
swollen,
Forget the phrases and the way you spoke to the client that isnot the problem. The problem is that you aren't taking anything away from this. From the sounds of it you could be taking away a lot about how you can manage your next project. There is a lot to learn here about how to approach your next client.
- po|arunion0
good point cola.
i definitely learned that a depost up front for more detailed estimates including layout/interior design should be drafted before anything is to be commenced.
believe it or not, i've pulled a shiteload of tips on contract dealings from this place and brought it into my line of work.
is there an NT for contractors? i hate talking to john and bobs. they're a boring bunch.much love nt.much love.
- cola0
po|arunion it is the deposit and a contract that covers you well. In my standard contract I cover for late assets which has potential to drag a project on for months so I added a quick blurb about the assets must be delivered by ______ in order to avoid additional fees. Nothing is worse than getting a deposit to a job and find that 6 months later they finally deliver you the copy and product and now they expect for you to start right away. As if the deposit means "retainer". So cover yourself there too.
- cola0
I also limit the client to 2 or 3 1 hour sessions for initial brainstorm before I deliver 1 of 3 rounds. This way they don't ever ask for me to come in and discuss because they know they only have 2 or 3 of these. When i deliver a round I make it known what we need to get from this round. Round 1 is always for initial dialogue, round 2 takes away from round 1 and round 3 is for refinement.
There has been way to many times where I have let a client off leash and before I know it I am resentful. I never blame the client, I always look at what I did to get a sour result and what I could have done to prevent it from happening again.
If I find a client who calls all the time expecting me to talk for an hour with them at any given time, I suddenly hardly answer my phone often or I don't even return the call for a couple of days when a client calls. I would rather them find it somewhat hard to reach me so when they do finally get me on the phone it remains very productive.
- Spix0
good points cola....I'm making notes. ;)
- po|arunion0
thanks cola.. good advice.. anyone got any good links to copies of contracts? i'm looking to write one up this weekend.. been a great start to the weekend actually.. although i lost the basement reno, i won the one for http://airliquide.com a 27,000 contract beginning on the 2nd.. withought hiring a lawyer, i'd like to find some good examples of legally bound contracts. any ideas?
- gabe0
good points cola / polarunion
bonus points: our industry might just end up earning a little more respect in the end, too.
MAN UP!
- gabe0
- po|arunion0
thanx gabe.. i remember reading something jox wrote one day on contracts.. searched for it, no dice. any one got it/any further links?
- swollenelbow0
look at all you professionals, i'm just a know nothing mexican then.
she needed me, she asked me, i could have continued taking in the ass, i would have ended up doing everything for her, for FREE! anyhow, i'm beating a dead horse as much as you guys now. the damage has been done, and besides i wouldn't want to work for her or any of the people she knows.
- cola0
I don't know of any resources online. All mine is by trial and error so I would love to hear others as well that maybe I have overlooked.
This one may be obvious but it is important. I will not release the print ready files or FTP into a dir of theirs until final payment has been received. This is so important because countless times I have found that the client is in a rush and I am in need of payment so I have released the work only to find out that I am on some 30 day policy. Let the client know this in advanced so if you have not received payment they are responsible for the delay and not you.
Trying to think of more.
- swollenelbow0
it's not like i called her a cold ass bitch.
cola, i got one, don't get taken for a good hearted person that is willing to help out for shit pay. you'll get screwed in the end.
that one is obivous but i fell for it.
- rasko40
you should have just swalowed your pride, been nice to her and told her that yes you can do all she wants, but that she is going to have to pay for it as it wasn't as discussed. Simple as that. Then its in her court whether she is willing to pay you to do the extra jobs, or if she can do without it and look elsewhere. Then you dont get fucked in the ass by a bitch with no respect, which it sounds like is what happened. Unlucky, but you wont make that mistake again.
- cola0
that's understood swollen. The dead horse should be beat however so that you can make sure it doesn't happen again. I would let them know that you apologize for letting this project get out of hand and that you should have managed it better from the beginning. You may be surprised at how they begin to take responsibility for their faults as well. Then before you know it you have a love fest of hugs and kisses.
Nobody here is blaming you Swollen and nobody here thinks clients should allow any of us to take it where the sun doesn't shine. It is just that we should look at how we can do better at managing the client to avoid these situations your in. We all have done it and all are still learning more about it every day.
Pobody is nerfect. ;)