Today Fahrenheit 9/11
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- fate0
The AP, BBC, hell, even CNN would be embarrassed to be called on the same level as Fox :)
- nick0
fate is right.
FOX is a piece of shit. and that Murdoch article is scary as fuck.
but to the Gabble guy who posted that article.. why would you post such a thing without first even reading it? you must be stupid.
- maze0
Haven't seen Fahrenheit yet, but by what I seen and heared about it, I think this film would be more interesting to see:
http://www.gunnerpalace.com
- nick0
great link, maze.. wow.
- Gabbletrosh0
nick = troll
- mrdobolina0
awesome link, maze. that soldier freestyling is real dope.
- nick0
lol, first time i've ever been called a troll.. thanks.
- Gabbletrosh0
now i feel bad for calling you a troll. thanx
- mg330
Have not seen it yet.
But a question:Does Moore call Bush a shit eater?
Please say yes.
- netbanshee0
We should all be careful about turning this into a semantic shit-flinging match. If any of you take to seriously examining the social and political climate we live in, then you wouldn't really be watching t.v. for anything more than a shallow visual representation of events that are going on. Places like Agonist.org have great resources and a steady stream of news from people all around the world. A good way to jump around and form an opinion based on many news sources.
Now to the film...
Sure Moore is a cheerleader on a different side of the fence then what's been generally represented in government and the media. But how many are there for the liberal minded. I can't really count that many on one hand. Now on the conservative side... lets just look at the White House admin. Moore's just there to balance things by not going directly for the middle.
For a Moore film, I thought he was a bit more careful than usual. Sure there were funny moments, but 2hrs of the same thing would be too much for anyone to handle. He let a lot of things speak for themselves and made the narrative through his editing style. Since I spend most of my time following current events and being well-read, there wasn't much here that caught me off-guard. I do think that the film helped shed some light on subjects that the moderate or undecided should consider.
So... overall, I think his work is a GOOD THING™ and should be seen by everyone. It may not sway you but at least tries to level the playing field out there.
- Fantrom0
Talk about Michael Moore FANatics...
They seem to follow just like the blind sheep that follow and support the Bush administration.
Airhead Bush has his agenda as Micheal Moore has his... and they are both willing to lie (just distort the truth a bit here and there) to get you to see it THEIR way.
Simple isn't it.
- jevad0
shaddap
- lilbabyarm0
I think Bush should get the academy award for his performance in the movie.
I laughed SO fuckin hard at him. very entertaining.
- Kuz0
Fantrom, that is total crap. well not total, but mostly crap.
Micahel Moore has made a movie. Bush doesn't make movies, Bush is a political leader. People are just commenting on a fuckin movie. A cultural product. A movie that raises questions, Moore is opening a discourse - u can agree or disagree with him how u want. THIS IDEA THAT HE IS MANUCFACTURING REALITY IN HIS FILMS IS BULLSHIT. I'm so sick of it. If you wanna take issue on how he distorts facts, then put ur balls where ur mouth is (hehe) and give some examples like peple on this thread have been beggin u to do. Then maybe u got a point. Goin on about some ambigious rhetoric of comparing Bush to Moore - how Moore wants to convince u of his opinions, and Bush of his, that that gives them some sort of equivalence, is crap and misses the point. We all have our personal opinoins which are based on subjective truth. But Bush is a leader, he is a man of action, he has poewr. Moore is opening discourse with power. Just like u or me or anyone else when election time comes and we're all like, so why shud i vote for this douche bag? Moore's giving u his opinoin on the state of things. As he sees it. Its an essay. Of course its a point of view. But thats the WHOLE point. It NEVER pretends to be journalism. Its a fucking movie. You're open to agree or disagree with him how u wish. What Bush does is go to war, manufacture some bullshit story about weapons of mass destruction, creates some ludricous facts and distortion of evidence to manufacutre a link between Saddam and terrorism, and then send in the troops. It's real. THIS IS A MOVIE. It's funny, its poignant, it offers u perspectives. Man, if u had actualyl seen THIS film, or were familiar with his work, u'd know how that what u said is crap.
If u disagree, give some concrete examples. Then we got something to work with. Or atleast critique the film properly. Dont give some crap about "oh Bush and Moore are equally bad". That's illogical . Maybe u can say Kerry and Bush are equally bad, cos then there's some equivalence.
But Moore is not offering u a vision of the future - vote for me and this is happen. He is exposing lies and corruption. If u think he is missing the point then so be it.
I really dont understand the American Right. U'd think they'd welcome accountability. But it seems like they dont. They have to make up bare faced lies about Moore. If you think he's lying, honestly, give some examples. Cos we all know, they will always be laughable - these accusations of urs.
I really dont get it. I personally dont like Moore that much. I like his films, they're funny and enteratining. Sometimes over long, meandring and grossly flawed (bowling for columbine - haven't seen fahrenheit) - but U make it out to be some malicious hoax. Fuck that. It is not a hoax. I dont agree with Moore politically. I'm of the political left, the real political left as is practiced in Europe - verging on anarchism with a marxist viewpoint of the world. Moore is resolutely not. He is a Libertarian in the most American sense. Good ol' American sense. U know, looking out for the little man, questioning the ineptitude of central government; how the cold haRd facts of American plutocracy, the all pervasiveness of corporate America and special interst groups, with their political connections, are trampling over the lives of "the little man". Anyone would think u'd welcome such a critique of American society. U'd welcome the essentail humanism that Moore appeals to ... isn't that what your country was founded on?? Personally i think he's vary naive, he lacks any real intellectual clout, and he shows no political alliances. He only knows what he "doesn't" like. Negative politics. And often in his critique of social injustice, he fails to see the wider picture. Fails to see the base sociological corruption the whole world is founded on. Nothin philosophical backs up his bitterness. That for me makes for fun, entertaining, eye opening films - but it is certainly not creating a political cult like u allege - like Marx, or Lenin, or Mao, or Hitler OR BUSH AND THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES have done.
Moore is NOT A PROBLEM for the AMERICAN right or lett. Why? Because both the left and right have something in common - they believe in society, they believe in humanism - and they believe in a better life for all (at least they shud). After all.. isn't that the resaon u got intersted in politics? Because u want a better world?
Moore IS a problem for the greedy - the corrupt, and the self intersted. The sociopaths whose only motives is PERSONAL profit. Not true politically minded peopel who want a better world for everyone - BUT ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE DONE WELL OUT OF THE SYSTEM - AND DONT CARE OR WANT A BETTER WORLD FOR ANYONE ELSE. Selfish people who think Moore, and anyone who questions the system they've personally done well out of, is a danger to their own well-being their own slefish interests. Maybe that's what the American Right has become. I guess that's what Reaganism was actually about This "my countries rich, powerful, i'm rich and happy and content - so fuck the rest of them - the poor, the marginalised" that sort of rhetoric couched in nationalism, patriotism - to give u something else to believe in. False gods. The state as a religion. The American constitutions not as a political doctrine to help faicilitate "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - but as the most sacred text since the bible.
So go on... tell us some actual lies. And this isn't directed at u Fantrom, u maybe a very liberal person for all i know, who's just fallen for the barage of mud slinging and attempts at character assasination Moore's had to put up with. It's all the other "right-wing" agitators on this forum who have been deafeningly silent in this thread.
Tell us how he lies and distorts. And don't go on about his selective use of facts and his "editing". Of course he selects facts - why the fuck wouldn't he? He's showing u the facts that HE THINKS are fucked up. Of course there are other things that aren't fucked up that he doesn't show u. But who's intersted in that? We want to know what is WRONG with this world, so we can change it. That is the point of Moore. And ofcourse he edits to make an emotional impact, using satirical humour. But its only cos he wants u to feel engraged as he is. You watch one of his films and there's PLENTY of room to say, ok, "that is fucked up, he puts his points across well, but obviously, u can see from his own movies, that's not the whole story" - IT NEVER PRETENDS TO BE THE WHOLE STORY.
If you really have a problem with Moore challengin politicians, the rich, the powerful, who make war, who allow millions to suffer through their negligeance and self-interest by showing u the TRUTH - u obviously dont value humanity that u find Moore such a threat.
- Value0
ah shuttup
- brundlefly0
how do they really know that g. bush senior bedded down on french sheets the night of sept 10th.....
I mean really.... how could they know....
another example of moore's lies.
;)
- magicpatch0
the media has moore power than the government
- 187LockDown0
eah lilbabyarm City Walk suck, I saw it at Point Orlando....
Anyways I say that every American should se this movie. Especially if you are a republican asshole. God help us if Bush stays in office another term.
- 187LockDown0
Oh yeah 1 more thing...
I have seen the movie 2 times now. The movie theatre was sold out for each viewing and at the end both times there was much applause. A quote heard as i was leaving the theatre made by a young girl with her parents:
Daughter:
"So, what do we need to do vote for Kerry?"
Father:
"It's all we can do, a vote for anyone else is a vote for bush"People we must vote for Kerry like him or not. It is the only way to get the chimp out of office before the rest of the world hates us even more.