Today Fahrenheit 9/11
Out of context: Reply #75
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Fantrom, that is total crap. well not total, but mostly crap.
Micahel Moore has made a movie. Bush doesn't make movies, Bush is a political leader. People are just commenting on a fuckin movie. A cultural product. A movie that raises questions, Moore is opening a discourse - u can agree or disagree with him how u want. THIS IDEA THAT HE IS MANUCFACTURING REALITY IN HIS FILMS IS BULLSHIT. I'm so sick of it. If you wanna take issue on how he distorts facts, then put ur balls where ur mouth is (hehe) and give some examples like peple on this thread have been beggin u to do. Then maybe u got a point. Goin on about some ambigious rhetoric of comparing Bush to Moore - how Moore wants to convince u of his opinions, and Bush of his, that that gives them some sort of equivalence, is crap and misses the point. We all have our personal opinoins which are based on subjective truth. But Bush is a leader, he is a man of action, he has poewr. Moore is opening discourse with power. Just like u or me or anyone else when election time comes and we're all like, so why shud i vote for this douche bag? Moore's giving u his opinoin on the state of things. As he sees it. Its an essay. Of course its a point of view. But thats the WHOLE point. It NEVER pretends to be journalism. Its a fucking movie. You're open to agree or disagree with him how u wish. What Bush does is go to war, manufacture some bullshit story about weapons of mass destruction, creates some ludricous facts and distortion of evidence to manufacutre a link between Saddam and terrorism, and then send in the troops. It's real. THIS IS A MOVIE. It's funny, its poignant, it offers u perspectives. Man, if u had actualyl seen THIS film, or were familiar with his work, u'd know how that what u said is crap.
If u disagree, give some concrete examples. Then we got something to work with. Or atleast critique the film properly. Dont give some crap about "oh Bush and Moore are equally bad". That's illogical . Maybe u can say Kerry and Bush are equally bad, cos then there's some equivalence.
But Moore is not offering u a vision of the future - vote for me and this is happen. He is exposing lies and corruption. If u think he is missing the point then so be it.
I really dont understand the American Right. U'd think they'd welcome accountability. But it seems like they dont. They have to make up bare faced lies about Moore. If you think he's lying, honestly, give some examples. Cos we all know, they will always be laughable - these accusations of urs.
I really dont get it. I personally dont like Moore that much. I like his films, they're funny and enteratining. Sometimes over long, meandring and grossly flawed (bowling for columbine - haven't seen fahrenheit) - but U make it out to be some malicious hoax. Fuck that. It is not a hoax. I dont agree with Moore politically. I'm of the political left, the real political left as is practiced in Europe - verging on anarchism with a marxist viewpoint of the world. Moore is resolutely not. He is a Libertarian in the most American sense. Good ol' American sense. U know, looking out for the little man, questioning the ineptitude of central government; how the cold haRd facts of American plutocracy, the all pervasiveness of corporate America and special interst groups, with their political connections, are trampling over the lives of "the little man". Anyone would think u'd welcome such a critique of American society. U'd welcome the essentail humanism that Moore appeals to ... isn't that what your country was founded on?? Personally i think he's vary naive, he lacks any real intellectual clout, and he shows no political alliances. He only knows what he "doesn't" like. Negative politics. And often in his critique of social injustice, he fails to see the wider picture. Fails to see the base sociological corruption the whole world is founded on. Nothin philosophical backs up his bitterness. That for me makes for fun, entertaining, eye opening films - but it is certainly not creating a political cult like u allege - like Marx, or Lenin, or Mao, or Hitler OR BUSH AND THE NEO-CONSERVATIVES have done.
Moore is NOT A PROBLEM for the AMERICAN right or lett. Why? Because both the left and right have something in common - they believe in society, they believe in humanism - and they believe in a better life for all (at least they shud). After all.. isn't that the resaon u got intersted in politics? Because u want a better world?
Moore IS a problem for the greedy - the corrupt, and the self intersted. The sociopaths whose only motives is PERSONAL profit. Not true politically minded peopel who want a better world for everyone - BUT ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE DONE WELL OUT OF THE SYSTEM - AND DONT CARE OR WANT A BETTER WORLD FOR ANYONE ELSE. Selfish people who think Moore, and anyone who questions the system they've personally done well out of, is a danger to their own well-being their own slefish interests. Maybe that's what the American Right has become. I guess that's what Reaganism was actually about This "my countries rich, powerful, i'm rich and happy and content - so fuck the rest of them - the poor, the marginalised" that sort of rhetoric couched in nationalism, patriotism - to give u something else to believe in. False gods. The state as a religion. The American constitutions not as a political doctrine to help faicilitate "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - but as the most sacred text since the bible.
So go on... tell us some actual lies. And this isn't directed at u Fantrom, u maybe a very liberal person for all i know, who's just fallen for the barage of mud slinging and attempts at character assasination Moore's had to put up with. It's all the other "right-wing" agitators on this forum who have been deafeningly silent in this thread.
Tell us how he lies and distorts. And don't go on about his selective use of facts and his "editing". Of course he selects facts - why the fuck wouldn't he? He's showing u the facts that HE THINKS are fucked up. Of course there are other things that aren't fucked up that he doesn't show u. But who's intersted in that? We want to know what is WRONG with this world, so we can change it. That is the point of Moore. And ofcourse he edits to make an emotional impact, using satirical humour. But its only cos he wants u to feel engraged as he is. You watch one of his films and there's PLENTY of room to say, ok, "that is fucked up, he puts his points across well, but obviously, u can see from his own movies, that's not the whole story" - IT NEVER PRETENDS TO BE THE WHOLE STORY.
If you really have a problem with Moore challengin politicians, the rich, the powerful, who make war, who allow millions to suffer through their negligeance and self-interest by showing u the TRUTH - u obviously dont value humanity that u find Moore such a threat.