creative management
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- ********0
arthur,
i saw your work posted in the NTB yesterday. it's rocksolid.
well as far as Unit goes, I am afraid I am pretty much in their 'protected geographic territory'. :/
We're both in the Netherlands, altho they are in the north in Amsterdam and I am in the far southwest (close to Belgium) most of my clients are/will be in the so called 'Randstad' region, it's the circle of cities like: Rotterdam, The Hague, Amsterdam, Utrecht etc.And that is a pretty tight area as far as geographical territory goes.
However, you could ask them, I don't see any objections from my side.
I believe that for the most important part the competition is about getting the better clients, and then it's all about contracting the proper freelancer for the job.
I can imagine that the more established agencies like UNIT have different ideas in that aspect.
- arthur0
Yeah, I don't think they'd be too cool about it, but what they don't know...well, probably not a good idea.
I've got a woman in Portugal who wants to rep me and I'm not even sure if that's considered "unit territory" or not. It's one of those questions that you hesitate to ask your rep though, especially when you have such a good working relationship. Unit really is great, though it takes far too long to see the dough.
But hey, you could just keep me in mind if something comes up and take a little skim off the top. As long as I don't have a portfolio on your site and you aren't advertising my wares I don't see an issue. Am I mistaken? It's a little fuzzy.
- ********0
true arthur..
my idea, but i have a very strong feeling the people at UNIT are reading this as well.
advantage on my side is that i tend to be very strict on payment-deadlines with my clients and often use costly ultra-fast money-transfer methods when needed...
so there..
i'll keep you in mind! cheers.
- sweetasbro0
sounds like a middle-man to me
- arthur0
Of course it's a middle-man. But that middle-man can bring lots of money, seriously. That's what agents do, and why they get a cut.
One of reps got me a job last year that brought me US$30k for 6 weeks work. Yeah, they made bucks off my work, but I wouldn't have had the work without them.
- sweetasbro0
if "LOTS" of money's what you want, wouldn't it be better to be the middle-man yourself and not work long hours and just whore many slaves like us out? why be the slave when you can be the master?
- arthur0
I wouldn't consider myself a slave. I enjoy what I do and am compensated very well. Also, agencies don't always make tons of money. I know of a couple that are barely keeping their heads above water. I also wouldn't call an agency "the master." They're trying to make a buck too.
- sweetasbro0
I see your point, but I feel sorry for all those who thinks like you - wow, the agencies are not making "that " much of a buck? do you know how much they quote to the clients? They normally keep 1/3 of charges by just sitting in their CBD buildings overlooking the water and by doing just making a few phone calls and answer a few emails, and by placing a few ads in the local jobsearch sites...
You might think what the pay you is adequate and that's fine, but I think morally it's wrong and not mentioning you don't develop a close relationship with a client and you'll always be a biatch - don't take it personal, just trying to get a point across and wake you up from the fantasy world I found a lot of designers seems to be in, the real smart ones are the likes of 4CY, whether I think he's right or wrong, he's smarter than you'll ever be, cheers!
- ********0
sweetasbro, the agency is out there making contact, hunting for new gigs, knowing the complete network of publishers and media from front to back, knows about the legal issues, handling contracts, dealing with clients, convincing them, travelling, meeting, talking, re-evaluating, briefing, planning etc etc.
how on earth would you think arthur could do ALL this and also do what he is good at?, namely illustrating for six weeks.
and i bet arthur took the biggest slice of the cake, since agencies only calculate their share on top of the designer demand/costs...
for my company i'll have to take gigs preferrably over 10k in value each so my share is enough to earn a proper living, altho for single editorials i will need to have a minimum charge for the Creative Manager (=me).. still need to do proper research in this field.
if all goes well i hope to get this baby running early April 2004.
- ********0
"the real smart ones are the likes of 4CY, whether I think he's right or wrong, he's smarter than you'll ever be, cheers!
"first off I am not 'smarter' then arthur since i could never develop the distinct illustrative style arthur has.
secondly, i would advise you to take a look at http://www.unit.nl and look at the designers listed there.
I have seen names that were alreay established in my childhood..
in other words, I'd like to turn your words around and say that designers who DO have an agent are the smart ones..
the best ones out there have at least one or more rep.tis the way it works in this world.
in short:
designer gets to do design, agent takes up ALL the other hustle, and believe me, that is still quite a lot.
and do not forget agents/reps/cm's can get the best and most exclusive gigs out there.
it's all about confidence and teambuilding!
- ********0
anyway, keep your emails coming:
flirt@dutchboy.info
i need some serious sleep now.. damn long days.
later, fellas!
- Lop0
look sweetassbro is a troll
please don't feed him
I for once I want to see this thread grow without people comedy centralin' in their nonesense
just don't feed the troll that's all I'm asking
now cy how would you handle the different people under your hood, let's say you have arthur which kicks ass, so he'll get all the best gigs while other illu's get the only the middle to good gigs, cuz the client want the kickass illu all the time
sorry I wrote in a hurry but you know what I mean right :)
how would you handle that so the not so famous illu get some of the good cake too??
- ********0
you're lucky i was still here, SUPA.
that is a very good question which has been bothering my mind from the start.
I think the mid-level artists could participate in a pitch that has a bit more flexibility, and do a comp/mockup on 'no cure no pay' basis. Then if they try well enough and win approval of the client they get the full gig, and this way get an opportunity to compete with the top-level artists.
I also need to add that selection will often be more based on particular style rather then their status as a designer.
In the past we have seen a lot of artists grow big because of one typical high-profile opportunity that choose this artist for his or her distinct style or skills.
these are all details i need to work out for myself still.
- arthur0
Sweetasbro, you really don't know shit.
Yeah, I guess I don't know what I'm doing, living in my fantasy world. My fantasy world is pretty nice. I make well over 6 figures, have the respect of my clients and peers, a nice house, nice car, and have plenty of time to spend with my family doing the things I enjoy. If this is a fantasy, please don't wake me up, retard.
I work directly with all the clients my reps have brought me and have developed many friendships. I get treated with the utmost respect, I get the impression you don't. You really are in the dark.
- arthur0
sorry to feed the troll
- ********0
hehe, yeah, i fell for it too.
anyway, hope things are cleared up now.
arthur, live the dream! i try to as well..
;)
- sweetasbro0
hahahahaha! Arthur! IS that King A...?
If you think you are so good at what you do - wow! illustration! man that's a tough job and you deserve the BS 6 figure. then fine, but don't try to suck in the other new and mid-weight designers into your capitalistic fantasy!
If you are so passionate about illustration, you should do it for free! build up your skills - I never give props to people who use their materialistic status to back their excuses - you're still dumb!
I'm off and good luck to you 4CY, I think you'd do well as you seems to live in the real world. And SUPER - you are the troll who's got nothing better to do - cheers!
- arthur0
Thanks 4cY. To add to Supa's question, each illustrator is different and brings a different style. An agent isn't going to take on two illustrators whose work is very similar, unless there is an enormous demand for that style, which is unlikely.
Every one of Unit's artists is different in some way. For a short period, they were repping me and Peter Stemmler (eboy). Our work is very similar. They stopped their relationship soon after, for reasons unknown to me.
A client wants an illustrator for their style, not how big their name is (unless they're huge). I would think that as long as the agent has been very selective in which styles he representents, minimizing overlap, there shouldn't be a problem. That's my 2 cents.
- ********0
*cough*
- ok_static0
bump for the DutchBoy...