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Out of context: Reply #3268

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  • canoe7

    Do I have to say it twice?

    QBNers who aren't up for the critical thinking game.

    For example, "...Trump is popular means A LOT of Americans are stupid..."

    SMH. That's some confirmation bias bullshit with an absurd amount of oversimplifcation. You lack to understand the complexities of why people vote and that makes you look like the trailer trash dumbfucks you think you're above.

    And it makes me question whether you even know anything about your profession! Everything we do has an audience, a target market that we distinctly develop communication for to get them to act. If your beef is with MAGA, or the Republican party, or the Florida education system, or whatever then make your argument otherwise, the headline, "America is stupid" is hyperbolic, falls on deaf ears, and has the reverse effect if you're going for that smart-cool-talented-designer-thi...

    canoe 7Permalink
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    • You had me at critical thinking.palimpsest
    • "America is stupid" is hyperbolic.
      "Trump supporters are stupid." is the truth. What would you say about flat earthers? Stupid is in our language for a reason.      CyBrainX
    • @CBX, "Trump supporters are stupid'" is just as hyperbolic. I'm interested to know what you think a US citizen should do if the fundamentally disagree with...Morning_star
    • ...Kamala/Dems. Should they not vote?Morning_star
    • *theyMorning_star
    • not hyperbole. it is quantifiably "stupid" to vote for trump... as a woman, an educator, a doctor, you are actively voting against your interests / healthimbecile
    • Thank god all US citizens are either women, educators or doctors.Morning_star
    • well at least 74 million people are stupid :)_niko
    • That's less than a third of us. Another third doesn't vote and that's an act of stupidity to begin with.CyBrainX
    • Wait a minute...palimpsest
    • @canoe Would you agree with the statement "people who vote for Trump do not see that he doesn't even remotely have their best interests at heart"?.mort_
    • Also @canoe, do you think some voters know this but are voting for some kind of strategic reasons?mort_
    • I agree that calling them stupid and demonising them is not the way.mort_
    • "I love the poorly educated."
      -Donald Trump      fooler
    • I agree that demonizing them and calling them stupid is not a good strategy if you're a politician but I'm not and those people won't be persuaded anyway.CyBrainX
    • Historically Americans vote by party.canoe
    • Would you agree that voting blindly by red / blue party allegiance shows a complete lack of critical thinking?mort_
    • "those people" < there's your problem, right there.Morning_star
    • No, it doesn't. You choose one side or the other.palimpsest
    • Thinking it's the same thing shows a lack of the "critical thinking" you so much value.palimpsest
    • https://upload.wikim…maquito
    • Was that directed at me @palimpsest?mort_
    • I'm talking about voting red because my family always votes red, regardless of changes in policy or leadership that may be damaging to that voter.mort_
    • Yes, @mort
      "Would you agree that voting blindly by red / blue party allegiance shows a complete lack of critical thinking?"      palimpsest
    • Right - see prev replymort_
    • I think there is a certain level of critical thinking but even more there is an emotional part that shouldn't be overlooked. Ultimately, they r not the same.palimpsest
    • Yes, different parts of the brain. The tribal need is very powerful.mort_
    • Drink structured water, that should solve it.palimpsest
    • I think we are not saying different things. Emotional needs can be irrational and interfere with critical thinking.mort_
    • Florida is again ranked #1 in the nation for education. So much money going into Florida schools right now since all the money is moving into florida.hotroddy
    • Florida schools don't waste time teaching you what pronoun you want to be when you get older.hotroddy
    • pretty stupid suppositions in this thread. when shown not hyperbole, argument changes, vote blindly? in the US? impossible. trump is shit no matter the party.imbecile
    • Hotroddy to the rescue.palimpsest
    • @Canoe, I hope the irony isn’t lost on you. You criticize making broad generalizations, yet you then generalize Florida and MAGA supporters as 'stupid.'hotroddy
    • There are individuals on your side of the debate who oppose merit-based policies, which is a key reason we're facing this challenge in the first place.hotroddy
    • @hotroddy What school "teaches you what pronoun to use when you grow up"?
      I know what states ban books, even math books, probably because of Jeebus somehow.      CyBrainX
    • Thinking beyond political tribalism...

      https://whiteeaglevi…      mort_
    • “The biggest single, best predictor of how someone’s going to vote in American politics now is education level.”yuekit
    • https://edition.cnn.…yuekit
    • We didn’t make it up, less educated people really are voting for Trump in droves. Less educated doesn’t automatically mean stupid of course but Trump really isyuekit
    • the candidate of the poorly educated as he once said.yuekit
    • "less educated" is a proxy for working class, which the democrats abandoned long ago. This is why Dick Cheney and Goldman Sachs support the Dems.monNom
    • and why Trump's commitment to reshore manufacturing, and reduce illegal immigration are appealing to the working class.monNom
    • Still doesn't mean "Americans are stupid" nor does it mean that "Republicans are stupid"... shit is Dennis Quaid stupid?canoe
    • because they are not stupid. They know that low-cost labour (overseas or at home), undercuts their ability to bargain for fair paymonNom
    • Trump's economic plan would be terrible for working class people actually.yuekit
    • https://www.forbes.c…yuekit
    • https://www.cbsnews.…yuekit
    • https://www.piie.com…yuekit
    • Conservative and liberal economists disagree on a lot of things but they are all seem to agree on this. The kinds of things you're talking about sound goodyuekit
    • as a campaign slogan, that's why it's called populism.yuekit
    • More terrible than exporting all the jobs they can, and importing migrant workers to fill the ones they can't? Not sure I buy that.monNom
    • One perspective is that a flood of new workers helps to suppress a wage-price spiral, which it probably does.monNom
    • but that doesn't say anything about whether workers might actually be better off in an environment of rising wages, even with fewer cheap imported goods.monNom
    • The unemployment rate is currently only 4%. The USA is doing quite well compared to the rest of the world.yuekit
    • Just because less educated people are voting for Trump doesn't mean they are doing it because they're poor or because their job was outsourced.yuekit
    • I think in the past, workers tended to retain more of their productivity as wages. A return to domestic manufacturing would likely tip the scales back.monNom
    • You keep mentioning things that more like campaign slogans... Trump's gonna magically bring back jobs and we all live happily ever after.yuekit
    • There is a resurgence in domestic manufacturing but it's not only Trump that is responsible for this. And his specific concrete plans like the tariffs,yuekit
    • supply and demand isn't a magical concept. You reduce supply of imported goods through higher prices, you incentivize the domestic production of those goods.monNom
    • more tax cuts for the rich and mass deportation of immigrants are terrible.yuekit
    • There is a lag as you build capacity, and prices rise briefly as a market signal, but in a short time replacement goods become available from local sourcesmonNom
    • It's also not magical that if you aren't producing those goods domestically or if it costs more to produce domestically, then prices will go up!yuekit
    • and competition leads to stable and declining prices.monNom
    • Look at what happened with Brexit...there were similarly simplistic feelgood arguments being made about how it would be a good thing to leave the EU.yuekit
    • Now a majority of the public thinks it was a mistake and the UK is projected to decline in terms of GDP until at least the mid 2030s.yuekit
    • These are neither simplistic nor feelgood arguments. They are economic policies that tend to distribute more wealth to the working class instead of wallstreetmonNom
    • Trump is proposing huge tax cuts for the rich along with massive tariffs. The tariffs are like a consumption tax...they end up falling on the poor and middleyuekit
    • class. You should look at the details and not just this vague impression of what Trump will do.yuekit
    • Something left out of your scenario is that those same poor and middle class are seeing their own market value rise along with rising prices.monNom
    • Without tarriffs or other equalization, goods are cheap, but labour demand is slack. You end up in a place where a whole generation can't afford a house.monNom
    • I haven't seen a single economist suggesting tariffs are a good solution. It really does seem to be a personal fixation of Trump's.yuekit
    • The point being, there's a rational explanation for Trump's appeal. It's not all stupidity and racism on the part of the people most harmed by current policies.monNom
    • That's silly. Biden put a 100% tariff on electric vehicles from China. It's one of the common tools to manage trade, discourage dumping, and protect industries.monNom
    • But didn't we just talk about how these policies might not actually be rational? One poll I saw the other day said people's #1 concern was high prices...yuekit
    • And in the same poll they also support Trump's plan for a 20% tariff on all imports. So literally supporting the thing that's going to do what you don't want.yuekit
    • And the difference is Trump is proposing a 20% tariff on everything, not targeted at specific industries.yuekit
    • Are rising prices still the top concern if their take-home pay is rising faster? Import goods might be up, but food, houses, and energy are made domestically.monNom
    • Even the policy itself sounds pretty stupid doesn't it?yuekit
    • Not if you are incentivizing domestic production, which creates a lot of jobs and prosperity for the working class.monNom
    • Why do you think so many economists are saying it's a terrible idea?yuekit
    • Why does the lawyer say his client is clearly not guilty?monNom
    • The problem is there doesn't seem to be any deeper thinking behind this at all...Trump is just obsessed with this idea and he's the person GOP hasyuekit
    • decided they'll follow on everything.yuekit
    • Are seriously suggesting economists are all biased?yuekit
    • https://leaders.com/…yuekit
    • The cost of making an iPhone in Americayuekit
    • "Are seriously suggesting economists are all biased?"
      lolol      monNom
    • are you seriously suggesting Santa Claus does not exist!?!monNom
    • I work with economists from time to time. They have wildly different opinions, and biases, just like everyone else. They even have different philosophies that..monNom
    • are often incompatible. Economics is more art than science in many ways. And you will get a very different opinion from a Keynsian than you will an AustrianmonNom
    • Sure they have different views but can you find a single serious analysis that says 20% tariffs on everything will lead to prosperity?yuekit
    • And yes, sometimes those biases which tend to support a certain viewpoint will be supported by others with that same viewpoint.monNom
    • Austrian economics is very fringe...this isn't one of the major types of economic thinking.yuekit
    • I suspect the economists quoted in the Wall Street Journal are very seldom opposed to the Wall Street zeitgeist.monNom
    • Trump's spending plans will also dramatically increase the deficit, about twice as much as Kamala Harris.yuekit
    • https://www.crfb.org…yuekit
    • These aren't well thought-out policies, it's just him promising everything to everyone to get elected and assuming tariffs = economic prosperity.yuekit
    • I think the current thinking on tarriffs is more nuanced. They used to be vilified, with the smoot Harley tariff act blamed for the Great Depression.monNom
    • The modern view is different. That old theory may have been self serving of an expansionist empire that wanted to remove tariffs elsewhere to ease dumping.monNom
    • Now that china is the one dumping, the arithmetic looks a bit different and tariffs are no longer to boogie man they once were.monNom
    • The Biden/Harris administration is certainly no stranger to tariffs. Regardless, a "20% sales tax" is a good slogan to scare the herd.monNom
    • This wouldn't just be on China, it would be on Canada too.yuekit
    • It says you live in Vancouver...you gonna cheer on economic penalties against yourself? :)yuekit
    • I wanna see average Americans doing well. The 'economic penalties' if they exist are pretty are minor compared to the US coming apart at the seams.monNom
    • Im the 100th comment. Impressive.milfhunter
    • And we still have gotten nowhere.palimpsest
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