UK in/out Europe?
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- HAYZ1LLLA5
IN. All day fucking long man. C'mon!!
- trooperbill-3
im out. purely based on the sovereignty issue. it shouldn't affect us in any way as we would still be part of the common market - that doesnt/shouldnt have anything to do with the political union. travel will be the same, jobs will be the same, immigration will be the same, but it would give us the ability to have tighter control on things like benefits tourism, nhs tourism, stop businesses employing slave labour,
the politicians want in for personal selfish reasons - they want high paid jobs in Brussels
all of the BS around 'you wouldnt have had this if you werent in Europe" is utter tosh! how do they know? do they have the ability to view parallel universes?
all the BS from both sides about the future is tosh too... who knows whats going to happen?
IMHO sovereignty is the only issue on the table worth anything.
- Welfare cuts u-turn. Academisation of secondary education u-turn. Housing bill u-turn. Disability cuts u-turn. Saudi prisons contract u-turn.Fax_Benson
- trade unions u-turn. child refugee u-turn. Lack of sovereignty to the EU blocking flawed policy initiativesFax_Benson
- *isn'tFax_Benson
- benefits are not controlled by the EUfadein11
- 'sovereignty' doesn't really mean anythingFax_Benson
- Sovereignty is an abstract concept that dissolved along with 'Empire'. Rejecting EU would mean current labour laws that protect would be torn up, recourse in...face_melter
- ...the human rights court curtailed even more along with other standards that protect removed.face_melter
- Who really runs the country any way? The government (a choice of 2 parties)?Chimp
- LukeO2
If all the people I see putting 'out' on their houses, facebook posts, profiles pics, cars etc etc actually vote: we are well out.
One thing our politicians are actually really good at, really world class, is diverting blame. This is a classic case. I don't trust our current government to do anything fairly. At least the EU has a crack at it. Doesn't always hit the mark but at least tries.
A low/med earning individual voting for out, hoping for a return to a simpler UK, is a turkey voting for christmas.
- i think the outies are more motivated than inniestrooperbill
- Yes definitely. I get funny feeling it'll be same scenario as Scots referendum though. People/Change don't mix.LukeO
- +1fadein11
- Projectile0
Strongest reason to stay in:
Currently there are a lot of regulations stopping the rich from raping us, and not many UK ones. Cameron and his buddies (on both sides) will be like rabid dogs released off a leash. Until things smooth over, they'll be able to rape the FUCK out of this country. Fracking, privatisation, massive deals will go down before UK laws can change accordingly, and then it'll be too late. They'll be sitting in a financial fortress and the UK will be owned by the highest bidder. And £3 will go to the NHS.
Reason 2:
Spanish girls are hot, and Portuguese are even hotterReason 3:
Before getting citizenship, I had to get a visa before any weekend in Europe. Imagine having to:
Book a visa appointment three weeks before travel (so no last-minute decisions)
Pre-book flights
Pre-book accomodation for EVERY night
Pre-book transport from every place on a specific day
Prove you have a stable job and enough money
Take a day off work and queue for hours outside the relevant embassy, and if any documents aren't in order you're fucked
Pay about £60 for the actual visa
(I once had to say no to some freelance work because of this appointment, someone else worked 3 weeks while I had no work. So the appointment cost me thousands!!)Reason 4: The obvious
Trade agreements with neighbours is a good thing. We gain so much more than we give, in lower prices, services, healthcare abroad etc.
- detritus4
The problem with the whole immigration debate is that EVERYONE in power is fundamentally lying about the issue.
Our economic model is predicated on the assumption that there will alway be an underclass of some sort to pay poorly to do all the shit work 'we' don't want to.
That won't change if we stay, that won't change if we leave.
That underclass is currently made up of comparatively poor immigrants - most of whom now come via the EU, most of whom within that tranche are actually from the EU. 'Most'.
If we leave we'll close off one route for people to come over, but still have a need for people to come over, so the borders will open to people from everywhere else, beyond Europe.
To be crass for a second - there will be more 'brown' people filling that gap than European 'white' people.
This is not what the right wing, the brexiteers, the Farage brigade want. This is not their preferred option, because the immigration debate is obviously an unstated racial and nationalistic one. The face of Britain has changed these last decades and will continue to do so, and no one since Enoch Powell has really engaged in the conversation, for better or worse, 'why' this is happening.
So, these people wanting the 'right sort' of immigration are being delusional by wanting to leave Europe.
Frankly, I think the debate about mass-immigration is important and does need addressing, but it is a super-European debate, it is a fundamental economic philosophical debate and one that no one - NO ONE - wants to go anywhere near.
The whole mess is an intractable knot of shit and is going to get a lot worse whether we stay or whether we go.
- Nicely put. I think this is what I was trying to say earlier. Like you say, this referendum will not bring debate about any of the important subjects.Ianbolton
- I sometimes get those sociopathic ideas about leaving to fuck everything up, to hopefully force more pressing discussionsIanbolton
- downvoted for mention of Enoch Powellfadein11
- You are kidding, I hope?detritus
- nope - what are you on about - noone has engaged with immigration? 1. Enoch Powell was a total racist scumbag. 2. Farage has engaged with it on a daily basisfadein11
- for the last 5 years.fadein11
- I can't think how a response could have more ruthlessly efficiently have made my point for me, thanks Fadein.detritus
- Perhaps actually read what I wrote, and try and understand it. Perhaps read all of what Powell actually wrote, not what you've had distilled to you.detritus
- chill due - people can disagree. Read Enoch Powell - no thanks. Sorry disagree with what you have said and I have now read it twice.fadein11
- a few too many sweeping statements for me. 1. EU immigrants do not just do the jobs Britsh 'natives' do not want to do. 2. "mass immigration" - what are youfadein11
- referring to here?fadein11
- we are probably on the same side - just disagree with some points made.fadein11
- I'm not sure you can actually disagree because you're misinterpreting what I'm saying and basing your opinion on a misconception. Oh well.detritus
- I get your point but I disagree. Chill your boots.fadein11
- "brown faces" do not come into the immigration debate. We have a long history of asian immigrants who have thrived here. The recent debate and problem withfadein11
- immigrations has been with white Europeans - i.e. Polish for example - arriving and doing a better job for way less money - this angered the average Sun readingfadein11
- white working man - they lost money. Race doesn't come into it - it's economics. I wholeheartedly disagree with this attitude and it is all part of a so calledfadein11
- free market. Have a read of The Buddha of Suburbia if you haven't - gives some great insight into the experiences of immigrants in Britain.fadein11
- I thought the crass 'brown' faces argument was if we left, more non-europeans would be making their way here?Ianbolton
- That's exactly what detritus just said?set
- sofakingback0
I feel like this is a perfect opportunity for American QBN Members to give their uneducated opinion on your european politics. Seeing as we have zero understanding of the issue or how it would even effect your daily lives.
- << That was a troll-esk post, feel free to delete. I was trying to be funny. :)sofakingback
- we all have our stupid momentsfadein11
- You still have an old rich family you pay your taxes too, you call them King and Queen. Very old fashion thinking. You're right, don't understand that at all...robotron3k
- lol - no King in these parts - and we pay our taxes to the state not the Royal family.fadein11
- your nation allows people to buy assault rifles to 'protect' themselves... all countries have their old fashioned ways eh.fadein11
- a civil society like UK doesn't decapitate/burn/ or sodomize their kings/dictators/rule... they let them be and ask them to get out of the way.hotroddy
- Im a total shit for this post. I apologize to my QBN brothers and sisters.sofakingback
- HA! As if we haven't waded into the Trump/Sanders/Clinto... debacleProjectile
- gonzalle0
I envy the opportunity the brits have to say all those fanatics breaucrats in bruxelles to go to hell.
- PeterPancake0
^
- kingkong0
or an issue championed by david cunt cameron, Alex cunt Salmond and jeremy cunt corbin.
eh, no thanks.
- great use of the c word thoughlowimpakt
- Doesn't Corbyn actually support leaving?yuekit
- he used to, back when it wasn't an issueFax_Benson
- 'Cos Michael Gove is one to back!?...babaganush
- lowimpakt0
yea, cameron is only protecting his political career and the benefits the EU has brought in terms of post-war peace, improved worker rights, better environmental regulations, reduced trade barriers/tariffs, research co-operation, protection of poorer regions etc etc are not things the Tories are particularly interested in or care about.
- Ianbolton2
- LOL! Ignorance...oey
- Poor RupertIanbolton
- well, he got the money. I wonder if a common citizen can have the same experience as he has. he speas like if he's the norm.oey
- like everyone could do the same. people that take this seriously are very distant, in their minds, from their actual standing in society.oey
- this wants me wanna pukeoey
- It's possible to to live a very good life by taking the opposite stance on everything that the 'Sun says'. A very good life indeed.Wolfboy
- lowimpakt0
what happens if Wales, Scotland, England or NI vote in a majority that is not consistent with the overall majority? could that lead to the break up of the UK?
I imagine it would be harder to govern in that context
- Scotland already said they will have a new independence referendum if they are dragged out of the EUchrisRG
- Scotland? The Scotland that proclaimed its non-existence as a country just two years ago?shaft
- the vote doesn't work like that - it's a simple leave or remain vote across all british citizens - not split like that.fadein11
- http://www.telegraph…chrisRG
- I was replying to lowimpakt.fadein11
- sorry fadein11, I was replying to shaftchrisRG
- sorry chris, i was replying to...oey
- Reply McReplyfacelowimpakt
- chrisRG4
It's absurd to ask for people to vote on a matter like this, elected leaders should point specialists in Economics, Politics, Sovereignty, History, etc.. (The Parliament) to decide it.
Truth is Cameron felt threatened by Farage during the election and had this brilliant referendum idea. Cameron is to blame for this mess.
- Right ! Democracy is an absurdity... People are stupid and don't know a shit ! We better shall trust those technocrats to handle every aspect of or lives.gonzalle
- In this case EVERYONE is 'stupid and don't know shit'. There is no authoritative resource for accurate information. There is a myriad of conflicting problems...Morning_star
- ..., each of them tainted and spun depending on who you listen to. It's a fucking mess and shouldn't have been managed like this. Democracy has litlle to do...Morning_star
- ..with it.Morning_star
- This is nothing to do with democracy, representative democracy is different than plebiscite democracy.chrisRG
- spot onkingsteven
- Of course asking the people to decide is absurd, that's why it's pretend.set
- Check your next design meeting to see how absurd leaving professional tasks to democracy is, gonzallemekk
- kingsteven1
@lowimpakt it's not getting much coverage but in NI we have dual citizenship (irish and gb/ni passports)... applications for irish passports have exploded during this campaign.
the irish republican parties are supporting bremain but i could easily see a scenario where a brexit, followed by further austerity and travel/ visa restrictions (when using british passports), and a successful second scottish independence referendum could tip the balance of support for irish unification... i'm an anarchist and really couldn't give a shit either way, but there are a load of dickheads who will start blowing up the place if that happens... so it's complex!
- yep, complex indeed. There are also around 250,000 British people living in the Republic. I've no idea what a Brexit means for themlowimpakt
- I had no idea Norns had dual citizenship!detritus
- these so called 'freedom fighters' are all career criminals, so they should be ok if business is booming.Dillinger
- Fax_Benson2
it's all gone Chris Morris on the Thames
- http://twitter.com/j…Bluejam
- Seriously, why didn't someone commission a Day Today/Brasseye referendum special?Bluejam
- ha, yeahFax_Benson
- Partridge, you wanker
https://pbs.twimg.co…Fax_Benson - hahahah, been watching it unfold on twitter, fantastic.kingsteven
- set5
Ugh the whole 'bremain' and 'brexit' thing is making me punchy.
Yes, we know it's Britain, you don't need to put a fucking 'bre' in front of normal people words you shower of shits.
- br*set
- must be the brexceptionalism, you even got your own Politics thread on qbnuan
- Bretardsset
- and keep on writing, I find it quite interesting to read the different opinions here, it's quite different what I get from the media.uan
- haha, you need to breave brokingsteven
- i felt the same about brexit until i saw someone using 'bremain' this morning... i'm all over it now.kingsteven
- Bring low sweet chariotlowimpakt
- I had no idea what brexit meant until now. Granted I didn't bother to look into it myself either.monospaced
- Now that I do know I completely agree with set.monospaced
- Next person to use either is getting a brick up their branusset
- calm down, BretFax_Benson
- Bwwwwwaaaaa Brian, Brian badonde! That's all I think of when reading/hearing itcruddlebub
- ^ lolset
- Ianbolton0
OUT?!!
