gay anti gay?
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- moth0
The irony of it. Calling people who hate gays......... er...., gay.
I can't understand how some of you think it's that simple. The more likely reason is that they're just imbeciles. They probably bash black people too - but that doesn't make them black.
- I think you are over simplifying the bigger point. And stupidity as an explanation for bigotry is also simplification.monkeyshine
- six0
it is deffo not a choice! you don't have any choice at all. if i wanted to live true to myself then its something i had to deal with and except at a very young age. when i was a kid, i remember my dad telling me i had to "stay away" from homosexuals as they are bad people. this was my 1st taste of homophobia and i guess the most effective. he was a GI in the 2nd world war and maybe he had a bad experience, or had actually partook in a little "cock fun" lol and felt guilt. more probably tho, he grew up in the mountains of kentucky and was probably told at a very young age that homosexuals are wrong and to stay away himself. maybe he thought he was protecting me. who knows. religion, i'm sure, played a big part in his beliefs.
- PS i cant be the only gay on this site ?? anyone ??
;)six - raises hand. I'm from Kentucky too.monkeyshine
- where abouts?six
- Mt. Sterling. My mom and grandparents are from Eastern KY. Liberty area. Yours?monkeyshine
- well they are both dead now and i've forgotten exactly where he grew up, somewhere in the mountains. then they moved to winchestersix
- winchestersix
- up the road. we're probably related. :)monkeyshine
- lol well i have a very large family, my dad was the eldest of 10. email me :-)six
- i'm here, i'm queer... how does the rest go?nadanada
- PS i cant be the only gay on this site ?? anyone ??
- monkeyshine0
Tend to your own garden.
If everyone did this we would all be better for it.
- utopian10
- this made me laugh so hard i crapped a nugget out.MySonIsHedge
- gramme0
ascescence & six:
Since I am not gay, I would imagine you'll discount what I'm about to say from a lack of experience. I don't have a degree in psychology, although it has been an interest of mine for years. Take or leave my humble opinion for whatever it's worth.
I maintain that being gay IS a choice. Saying that gay patterns have been witnessed in the animal kingdom – and thus support the genetics of homosexual tendencies in humans – is an incredibly weak argument, because it assumes humans are animals, and that there is sufficient likeness between humans and animals to draw such parallels. I don't see reason from science or psychology to support these supposed likenesses. Humans can reason on complex levels, unlike animals. They have souls, unlike animals.
I think it is possible to have a predilection for homosexuality, just like some people can't seem to look at porn in moderation, some are obsessively clean, some (maybe even most of us in developed countries) are addicted to monetary gain, etc. All of these lifestyle characteristics are choices. They may be deeply ingrained habits and paradigms influenced by our upbringing. Some patterns and habits are so deeply ingrained that only rehabilitation (such as drug addiction or alcoholism, for example) can correct them. One often feels that the choice was never theirs with such deep habits.
Now of course, I don't think being gay really compares well with alcoholism, I was just using that as an example. It is however a person's reaction to events in their lives, almost always events that happen at a very early age, sometimes even earlier than one can remember. It's not necessarily sexual or emotional abuse, although I have known/known of very many gay men and women who were sexually and/or emotionally abused from a young age. Sometimes it happened only once, sometimes it happened for years on end. It is very telling that violence among gay adult men is rampant; sometimes even taken for granted. Such physical abuse often goes unreported for a variety of reasons.
Another scenario I have seen quite a bit, in the lives of gay men at any rate, is the lack of a father figure. Perhaps the dad left early on and the boy never had a man to model himself after. More often, the father is present for at least part of the boy's childhood, but is emotionally absent or abusive. Maybe he even spends a lot of time with his son, but can't express masculine affection.
I know these scenarios may seem like oversimplifications. I know this does not explain the roots of every gay person's lifestyle. Sometimes, guys have great relationships with their fathers, but have awful, embarrassing, traumatic experiences with women (rejection from an early age, etc.) There are so many reasons and factors. But my bottom line is that there is always a REASON why people are gay, and I don't think the reason is ever genetics.
On a side note six, I have a hard time believing that your boyfriend's kids were not traumatized by their father's lifestyle change and the divorce. I have never met a child, even older teen kids, who were not heartbroken by their parents' divorce, regardless of what caused it. In fact, I personally know a family that was broken years ago by a father who left his wife for a man. As I recall, the guy's wife even caught him in the act. It took her many years to overcome the pain. To this day the father's kids, some of whom are older than me, have difficulty talking about it. And regardless of what one believes about such a thing as the gay gene...I don't think the spouse who is left behind could ever fully shake the notion that they "drove their wife or husband to the other side." The attendant shame and heartache is enormous and unavoidable. To paint your boyfriend's scenario as a positive thing seems very twisted and sad to me.
It is unfortunate to hear your dad's outlook on gay people. I would never ever tell my son to avoid gay people, though I would talk to him about the relationships God originally intended for men and women, and why.
I've said about all I can on this subject. I fully expect to get flamed for this, pun somewhat intended. So be it.
- It is a choice, in so far as it's also a choice - to a certain extent - to consume food and drink liquid.lukus_W
- I of course disagree, but ultimately it doesn't matter whether it's genetic or not.gramme
- It's a departure from God's original plan, which wasn't to hem us in with restrictions,gramme
- but rather to lead us to the more profound and lasting joys life offers.gramme
- NOT A CHOICE!duckofrubber
- Corvo0
Grow up.
- six0
there's that word G again
- ukit0
Gramme, you seem like a nice enough guy, but why you feel the need to write 9 paragraphs explaining to someone why their lifestyle is "not natural" is beyond me. All of your conjecture about childhood influences and upbringing, could be applied just as well to your own world view as a Christian. I'm no mood to start an argument about this but I do feel that in 20 years you and most of the world will probably look at the issue differently.
- Insecurity brought upon by desire to strictly adhere to religious dogma.lukus_W
- Wrong and wrong, lukus. But keeping spinning stories like that if it lets you put a label on me.gramme
- The rhetoric behind my comment is very similar to the way you intellectualise homophobia in your comment above.lukus_W
- above.lukus_W
- Erm, no. I was being respectful, and offering a reasoned response.gramme
- six0
ukit, well said. i'm too busy picking myself off the floor to reply atm. i guess i have left myself wide open to this by being so honest and open on a public forum.
- Corvo0
Grow up explained: do your own path, keep it to yourself. why so much justification?
- gramme0
ukit, I wrote 9 paragraphs about it because I think homosexuality becomes increasingly more and more misunderstood as time goes on – even as people become more "liberated". I don't think we are collectively moving forward in that regard. In 20 years the average person will be even more confused about sexuality. It's already gotten to the point where so many men and women I know have no real idea what it means to be a man or a woman. Ultimately, everyone loses. It just makes me sad to see people selling themselves short.
Six, I intended no attack on you, hopefully you didn't take it that way. You seem like a nice guy, but you did put some things out there that I felt couldn't be ignored.
- follow your own path but don't presume to understand something that you clearly do not. tend to your own garden.monkeyshine
- you're not gay so don't presume to understand it. 9 paragraphs is a lot for self-inflated guessingscarabin
- omgitsacamera0
gramme: tl;dr.
- ?gramme
- I have no idea what that means.gramme
- too long; didn't read.
give me a sparknotes version.omgitsacamera - cliff's notes: I smashed my toe this afternoon and little else to do besides type diatribes whilst elevating my foot.gramme
- GeorgesII0
just updating,
another famous gay anti gay and his late lover
Is it so difficult to come out of the closet when you're a nazi?
- nadanada0
i am gay, and believe me, it's not a choice.
had it been a choice, i would have changed my mind in middle school when the verbal abuse at school was so bad i don't remember much else of those three years.if you still believe its a choice, please explain that to my 4-year-old self who had a rabid crush on jonathan taylor thomas.
- GeorgesII0
fuck you, hypocrite
-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/20…
"I am deeply sorry for my actions and offer no excuse for my poor judgment. I accept complete responsibility for my conduct and am prepared to accept the consequences for what I did. I am also truly sorry for the impact this incident will have on those who support and trust me - my family, my constituents, my friends, and my colleagues in the Senate."- i think he was doing undercover investigative workCALLES
- NONEIS0
Yesterday...
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.…- hah ^^^ ugh, read to page three and drink coffee before posting drrr.NONEIS
- previous0
wouldn't it be crazy if gramme's son turned out to be gay?
- Llocustsloth
- I'd still love him.gramme
- but would you send him on a course to be 'fixed' ?lukus_W
- Way to misunderstand everything I've said in this thread (and others).gramme
- And btw we all need to be "fixed." Sin is sin in God's eyes, and we've each got our share of guilt.gramme
- Myself included.gramme
- enough with the "sin" bullshit, you fucking preacher. we're all just HUMAN and we're all just LIVING.iCanHasQBN
- kona0
this story has now been posted into 3 different threads
- OSFA0
