655 000 killed
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- Jaline0
Kurds, sorry. Gah, I'm getting my people mixed up. Just wrote an essay and my mind is boggled..
- Jaline0
Anyway, what I said about the Kurds and the Arabs is true. I read more about it in the NY Times last month. The displacement from the war is causing more fear and unhappiness.
- PonyBoy0
istanbul was constantinople... now it's istanbul not constatinople... been a long time gone...
... blah blah blah
MAKE A LITTLE BIRDHOUSE IN YOUR SOUL!!!
- pavlovs_dog0
well hold on now...
i look at this study mit and johns hopkins did.
" Researchers randomly selected 1,849 households across Iraq and asked questions about births and deaths and migration for the study led by Gilbert Burnham of Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland "
So basically it's a death poll.
" The authors said their method of sampling the population is a "standard tool of epidemiology and is used by the U.S. government and many other agencies."
so, the bush adimistration uses this methodology.
and here's what he said about it...
"The methodology is pretty well discredited. "
ah... ok?
- mrdobolina0
so, this number seems high... agreed.
Is 100,000 people dead acceptable?
Anyone that supports this war has a major character flaw.
- PonyBoy0
let's look at 'war'... it's definition if-you-will...
... in the end - the side w/the most casualties (military/domestic) wins....
... right?
---If we're going to start judging a 'WAR' by an 'acceptable amount of deaths' then... well...
... it isn't war.
---
Take the recent hezbollah / Israel 'war' for example...... many folks threw a fit saying that Israel's actions were more in tune w/an 'over reaction' than that of a country defending itself in a 'war' scenario where BOTH SIDES are fighting...
... one side is obviously stronger and WILL WIN... which is what war is... right?
---
btw... I HATE WAR... and death... so don't try and attach me to the clowns who STARTED this war nor do not get confused that I'm in any way shape or form backing all these deaths...
I'm mearly pointing out that with War comes death - lots and lots of it... domestic and military. The side that has the most death and destruction loses. That's the way it's always been... and always will be - unless someone comes up w/a 'clever way' of making war humane.
This war in Iraq is going to have sooooo much more death attached to it before any stability ever (if ever) reaches that country...
... this is unavoidable now because of the insurgency and not so much the suni/shiite relationship inside the country (which too is an issue - but it's an issue much grander than just Iraq - the two sects aren't ONLY in Iraq and both sects have support in and outside of the country - expect to see that 'issue' to grow more-so than just an internal Iraqi civil war (you know... kind of like it already is now... :) )...
someone have a link w/a 'paraphrasing' tutorial?
- mrdobolina0
I just always think back to the fat headed idiots that supported this war.
what fucking "morans". even if it were a war strictly about economics, it was fought to save industry. this country is in debt up to its eyeballs, how the hell is that good for the economy of joe sixpack? It just isnt.
- monoblanco0
that's what entertainment is for.
so we don't have to think about this tpe of stuff.
so tune in and ignore what our money is funding.
- vespa0
thanks for that reminder mikotondria.
Disputing the numbers is a smokescreen designed to stop discussion about the real issue: that iraq has descended into a bloodbath of chaos that has left ordinary people in a much worse position than they were prior to the invasion.
Iraqis are now over twice as likely to die a violent death then they were under Saddam. which number exactly correlates to justifiable outrage? 60 000 deaths?
cactus, which points are you disputing in what Richard Horton is saying? or do you just object to his tone of voice?
- monoblanco0
that is a staggering number
how can this administration sleep at night?....... How???
Ramanisky2I'd ask how can we all sleep at night.
- vespa0
I'd ask how can we all sleep at night.
monoblanco
(Oct 11 06, 23:45)well if the response rate to this thread is anything to go by, denial and the "ignore" feature in our brains would be my guess. myself included.
- soda0
Regardless of who is causing the deaths, regardless of your political leanings and regardless of the reasoning for being in Iraq I can't believe that anyone can still honestly say it's a good thing we are doing over there? I mean seriously, anyone?
- honest0
Do the americans not understand that each time they've tried to help countries in this situation, they do a terrible job. Lots of body bags on both sides and no resolution to the original problem.
- Bluejam0
even if you take the lowest figure (392,979) that's 130 World Trade Centers...
- Witt0
here's the original study. enjoy the mothmatics:
- moth0
I'd ask how can we all sleep at night.
monoblanco
(Oct 11 06, 23:45)Safe from terrorists apprently.
- Drno0
i'm glad that this thread didn't die,
i'm glad to see that they are some people realising that even 10 people dying is worth talking about,
i'm glad to see that some of you are respecting the lives of the irakis
as for the rest that think they are safer now, lets see in 5 years
- Witt0
i'm glad to see that some of you are respecting the lives of the irakis
...
Drno
(Oct 12 06, 03:08)
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yes, miss universe
- Cactus0
Among the things I cannot accept is exploiting the suffering of people to make gains that are not the least related to easing the suffering of those people. I’m talking here about those researchers who used the transparency and open doors of the new Iraq to come and count the drops of blood we shed.
Human flesh is abundant and all they have to do is call this hospital or that office to get the count of casualties, even more they can knock on doors and ask us one by one and we would answer because we’ve got nothing to be ashamed of.
We believe in what we’re struggling for and we are proud of our sacrifices.
I wonder if that research team was willing to go to North Korea or Libya and I think they wouldn’t have the guts to dare ask Saddam to let them in and investigate deaths under his regime.
No, they would’ve shit their pants the moment they set foot in Iraq and they would find themselves surrounded by the Mukhabarat men counting their breaths. However, maybe they would have the chance to receive a gift from the tyrant in exchange for painting a rosy picture about his rule.
They shamelessly made an auction of our blood, and it didn’t make a difference if the blood was shed by a bomb or a bullet or a heart attack because the bigger the count the more useful it becomes to attack this or that policy in a political race and the more useful it becomes in cheerleading for murderous tyrannical regimes.
When the statistics announced by hospitals and military here, or even by the UN, did not satisfy their lust for more deaths, they resorted to mathematics to get a fake number that satisfies their sadistic urges.
When I read the report I can only feel apathy and inhumanity from those who did the count towards the victims and towards our suffering as a whole. I can tell they were so pleased when the equations their twisted minds designed led to those numbers and nothing can convince me that they did their so called research out of compassion or care.
To me their motives are clear, all they want is to prove that our struggle for freedom was the wrong thing to do. And they shamelessly use lies to do this...when they did not find the death they wanted to see on the ground, they faked it on paper! They disgust me...
This fake research is an insult to every man, woman and child who lost their lives.
Behind every drop of blood is a noble story of sacrifice for a just cause that is struggling for living safe in freedom and prosperity.Let those fools know that nothing will stop us from walking this road and nothing will stop our friends and allies from helping us reach safe shores. There’s simply no going back even if it cost us more and their fake statistics will not frighten us...our sacrifices, like I said, make us proud because our bloods are not digits in those ugly papers. Our sacrifices are paving the way for future generations to live the better life we couldn’t live.
Omar Fadil, an Iraqi