< Galloway / Sky News
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- KuzII0
soda!
*ejaculates
- paraselene0
soda!
*evaporates
- soda0
Hi people. I think it's better to discuss my return in a less serious thread... Any suggestions?
- KuzII0
how 'bout your very own thread?
- Cactus0
"There's no debate."
That one is a classic. Gotta love kuz.
Hmm...didn't know Honest Reporting is an Israeli/Jewish site. But how does that affect the accuracy of the their content? You don't address any of the facts they presented. Memri TV is also accused of being an Israeli propaganda site but I've never heard of any of their translations being disproved.
You used the Independent as a source. I don't consider them as objective but I would consider their content on a fact by fact basis. Reuters, a supposedly prestigous news gathering service, has just been caught out using doctored images by Arab stringers. It is imperative that you are able to "read between the lines" to form an objective, informed opinion. Otherwise, you are just filling the ether with the fog of obfuscation. This usually means reading not merely journalism but widely of the historical background of the conflict
If I have the time, I will try to ferret out some info on Israel's alleged discrimination.
But, I have a question for you: Why does Israel's social policies disturb your mind so much more so than it's neighbors' blatant and well-documented history? Are they not to be held to the same standards as Israel?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060…
http://www.assistnews.net/Storie…
- vespa0
hi soda!
hey we've got the telly on here and it says "TERROR PLOT" all over it in 100 pt type. i feel like i'm being prodded with electric shocks to make me comply with public fear. anyone else have this weird sensation?
- paraselene0
we haven't got the telly on, but i know what you mean, vespa.
- Cactus0
Just keep reciting: Bush...Israel...poverty...oppres...
It will all be better in the morning.
- KuzII0
Israel's neighbours? Or do you mean any Muslim country anywhere in the world? Cos I know thats your real target for hate.
So because there's communal violence in another country far far away from Israel, and many black people have a neurosis with regards their skin colour... that means we shouldn't look disapprovingly at Israel's apartheid system. Love the logic.
- Cactus0
...many black people have a neurosis with regards their skin colour...
They also have a neurosis about staying alive...
http://www.darfurgenocide.org/
hence the pale camouflage.
- vespa0
Hi Cactus, i disagree with Kuz that "there's no debate". Debating helps me to understand things for myself, and you are all really helping me here, which i value a great deal.
Re: the accuracy of Honest Reporting's site being affected by it's ties to Aish HaTorah, the Orthodox Jewish outreach organization, i dispute the article's opening statement:
"The co-existence of Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel has long been a model for the potential for democratic pluralism to take root in the Mideast. But rather than publicize this encouraging fact, the major media outlets have repeatedly distorted the status of Israel's Arab community."
I dispute the statement above, citing the Amnesty International report I linked in my earlier post about 14 May's Israeli High Court ruling. This report provides evidence that Israeli Arabs are victims of institutionalised racial discrimination. The Honest Reporting article doesn't acknowledge this reality, which makes me think they are biased.
I agree with you that it is important to consider content on a fact by fact basis, to read between the lines and to read widely in order to understand historical context.
I wholeheartedly agree that human rights abuses elsewhere in the middle east, not only Israel, are disturbing.
However, the two links you provided, worrying as they are, do not qualify in my mind as institutionalised racism, that is, government policy upheld by state law.
Furthermore, Israel's planned invasion of Lebanon in the next few days disturbs me a great deal, not least because British arms will be used to kill yet more Lebanese civilians. I can't understand why the British and US govts are still blocking UN calls for an immediate ceasefire.
Thank you for your time in continuing this discussion.
- KuzII0
how the fuck is he helping you? you haven't agreed with one thing he's said.
Oh and you don't wanna listen to what Amnesty international says. They're an anti-Semitic organisation hell bent on destroying the state of Israel. I'll post the NGO-Monitor link before Cactus does:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGO…
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngo-m…see? they're all in on it.
- vespa0
kuz this discussion is helping me, whether we agree or not. but i think Cactus and i agree on some things. Human rights abuses being wrong, for one thing.
but kuz now you're not being very clear. i can't see where NGO-Monitor implies that Amnesty International is an anti-Semitic organisation bent on destroying Israel.
PLEASE try and be calm, kuz. i agree with a lot of what you're saying, but am trying to have a rational discussion with people of all views.
- Cactus0
I honestly don't know the full picture of what life is like for Israeli Arabs but most problems they have with living within Israel seem to be security related and sympathy with the plight of their fellow arabs living in the occupied territories:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl…Why do so many volunteer to join the Israeli army? And vote to stay in Israel rather than join a future Palestinian state? Seems rather weird if they are living in conditions allegedly analogous to South Africa during the apartheid years.
That doesn't there aren't ethnic tensions. There is a war going on. But at least they free to speak their minds within Israel.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/wor…
To voice similar concerns from the opposite side in an Arab country of the Palestinian Territories would get you killed.
That said there is almost certainly ill feeling between the two communities particularly over the "right of return" and, in general, the overall radicalization of muslims worldwide.
Here is a "jewish" article that predates 9/11 and the "so-called" War on Terror.
- KuzII0
it's implied.
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/archi…
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/archi…
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/editi…actually read through what i was posting and NGO-Monitors stance and opinion. If you really want to delve into this topic.
- vespa0
ok kuz i'll read it. you didn't link that before though.
i'm off to a meeting now. i'm not sure if there's any point continuing discussion as it doesn't seem like anyone here actually wants to discuss, pople prefer to ram points home in a war of words, rather than actually trying to find out what is going on.
- KuzII0
yeah, and you seriously expect to find out what's going on, by "debating" with people with long held and intransigent views?
There are libraries honey.
- vespa0
that would include discussing things with you kuz. i have actually learnt loads over the past few days.
sorry you haven't but as i said before, i don't know as much as you.
what do you gain by knowing more than everyone else, why do you resent people trying to find out more, with the means available to them?
- RustyBadge0
Anyone seen that George Galloway on Sky News footage...?? It's magic!
- Cactus0
Black Magic