Small Homes

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  • canoe

    Thinking about buying property and building a VRBO to live in for a few years before buying a "real" home. The kid is young enough to do it now.

    Has anyone built a house or an A-Frame from the ground up?

    How about having to develop roads and tap into electricity?

    Water more than likely will be well or spring ($4k to 7k)

    It only makes sense if I can keep it under 150k.

    Land is anywhere from 30k to 100k... and I have a strong feeling the property location and features will trump square footage.

    Has anyone been down this journey before?

  • canoe1
  • zaq0

    Which area?

    • Leelanau, Grand Traverse or Charleviox counties in northern Michigancanoe
    • So, yah, 4 season durability, prefer a car port at least, garage can come latercanoe
  • hardhat13

    I've been tinkering on a pretty tiny off-grid thing over the past couple of years -- https://www.instagram.com/nikriv… so might have a few words of wisdom

    I built mine entirely myself, and its very modest (14'x24'), and done on the cheap, and will probably be about $25k all up in the end, but a lot of sweat equity in it

    electricity is expensive to get in if not already there ($1000 a pole?), likewise for internet/phone. i gave up idea of grid power over solar / generator, and internet is satellite (capped, so limiting if you're there full time and *need* it to be full speed all the time). i tapped a spring and so far so good, but was lucky to have water on the land. drilling a well can get pricy if you're unlucky.

    if i was going to live full time, or do another to build and sell, i'd probably buy a piece of land with a teardown on it and recycle all the systems in place (septic, electric, phone, water). saves so much hassle, and planning permission would be so much easier

    my experience with an A-Frame is they arent the best use of space (internally). you can't just put a bookshelf up, push a chest of drawers against the wall etc. but that's just my (limited) experience with them.

    take your time looking at land. i spent a good season looking for mine -- there's a big difference between the shit you'll see, the acceptable stuff that would work, and that amazing parcel you've been searching for.

    i might not be of much help, but ping me if you have any questions

    • the IG feed is a little old, but ive just been adding a "bathroom" to the main structure too. so indoor toilet (composting), and hot shower etc)hardhat
    • ... and now has a wraparound deckhardhat
    • very cool, nice work!prophetone
    • Cool. I'm working on scouting land for a fullerene cabin with a metal frame. No wood or plastic.cannonball1978
    • Wow your place looks amazing!
      What websites/forums do you use for tips, advice etc. Reddit subs?
      Leigh
    • @Leigh -- i actually just google (& youtube) for pretty much everything. I got a bunch of books i glance read in the beginning, but no real "bible" as suchhardhat
    • thankscanoe
    • ^ What everyone has said and just wow!Maaku
    • oh nice! would not be the groundwork be more stable with stones/beton column? wood last forever if it does not get in touch with snow/water.api
    • @api — the foundations are 4’ concrete posts poured into the ground (to prevent frost-heave) and then 6x6” pressure treated lumber.hardhat
    • Floor framing is also pressure treated, and all sits a few feet off ground. I’d imagine it will last a lifetime at least. After that, I’m not fussedhardhat
    • a human lifetime is over very fast relating to a home. don't let snow/water too close to wood for a permanent time. you did well!api
  • mugwart0

    Starting to explore this for uk. So many land laws (understand why you yanks escaped), crazy crazy expense

  • monNom0

    Haven't done this myself but did help to build the family home out in the middle of nowhere, and I also have a relative who operated a number of large home-builders in a big city.

    Here are a couple of choice rules of thumb and things to consider that I've gleaned over the years.

    Expect the cost of a finished lot ready to build on to be at least 5x the cost of the raw land. That's based on developing a subdivision, so for a small rural plot for one home, getting road access, electrical, plumbing (likely septic or a bioreactor) might well exceed that. Of course, if you buy a million dollar acreage, that skews the numbers a bit, but its still handy to know how expensive site prep is relative to land cost. Better to buy a prepared lot, or a teardown with good services. At least you know your cost then.

    The foundation is 1/3 the cost of a house. the walls/roof/windows are 1/3, all the rest inside is 1/3. So if you're looking at a 30k prefab box, 2x that for foundation and interior finishes. (also note that stickbuilt on site is usually cheaper than prefab).

    As a rule of thumb, you want the house to be 2x the cost of the lot to maximize your return if you decide to sell... Not everyone wants a tiny home, nor a mansion on a postage stamp. If you plan to sell in the future, think what the average person might buy.

    Any land without proven water is a huge gamble. You can spend thousands on drilling wells and not find anything. (we had a neighbour drill 500' and still no water, they ended up piping it in from another house a half kilometer away.), Land with proven water is always going to be more expensive.

    A large rural property is a lot of work to maintain. If you have an acreage out in the country, you will likely spend most of your weekends working on it. You will eventually find that you want a tractor, and a chainsaw.

    Don't neglect to consider heating fuel availability. If you can only get electric for heating, the bills will absolutely slay you. Propane is also expensive. If wood, there's a lot of labour involved, and can make you uninsurable. Natural Gas would be ideal if it's in the area.

    Consider availability of broadband, and cell coverage. Lots of rural places have poor or no coverage.

    Consider amenities. Can you get food/gas reasonably close? is there a hospital nearby? Does the area shut down in the off season, leaving you without access to some necessities? How long does it take for the roads to get plowed? Is there a fire department, and even if there is, can you get insurance on your home?

    Lots to consider, but the benefits can definitely exceed the costs if you choose well. If I were to do it, I'd look for a cheap home that needed some work rather than start fresh. Often existing homes couldn't be rebuilt today due to changes in zoning/building codes, so you can get grandfathered on some spectacular locations (close to water's edge, atop a cliff, etc.)

    • also be prepared for it to take 4 times as long as your worst case estimate, to cost double, and to destroy your relationship with your spouse.monNom
    • ^^ haha. i can attest to _all_ of the abovehardhat
    • thankscanoe
    • < Everything this main said.pr2
    • manpr2
  • canoe1

    I understand the dilemma.... but everything

    that is on nice property
    is a nice home

    and costs way over my limit for a second home, 90% of what's available is out of my range.

    shoulda married up!

  • hardhat0

    fwiw, rethink what it is you NEED if you're building from scratch. and also look at parcels that were semi-developed and owners never finished. i was never really building an investment to resell, so on-grid options were less important. solar options with backup generator is worth looking at. so many things consume less power these days. aircon, fridges are few that eat power, but you can get propane fridge and endure warmer summers. lighting also used to consume wattage but LED has changed that. composting toilet? rainwater catchments? etc etc. having a kid in the mix will def alter what you do/don't need, but sometimes thinking outside the box can change your viewpoint on what is and isnt essential.

    If you do look at land and want a septic, you'll want to get a perc test, to make sure the land can take a septic system (usually land has to be flat-ish, not to sandy or clay). it might change your septic bill if you have to put in a more pricy system

    And not sure where you're looking exactly, but there *are* properties with amenities already on. they are just few and far between. this one is close to me, and gives you an idea that they do exist: https://www.zillow.com/homedetai… -- i mean, its not MY cup of tea, but just to show you they exist

    • Any cheaper to go A-Frame? less wood?canoe
    • tbh, framing isnt a big chunk of change. mine is pretty small, but the base was ~$1k, framing ~$1k, roof ~$1k. without any insulation or "skin" (roofing iron)hardhat
  • imbecile0
  • prophetone7
    • Lovely.ideaist
    • "starting price of $389,000" hahaha, c'monOBBTKN
    • Wordsworth
    • Sub $400k seems reasonable as I think includes site prep, pret et porter convenience of it all?prophetone
    • All you need is a nice secluded desert lot in Joshua Tree, or Icelandprophetone
    • That's ridiculous and another example of why prefab like this will never work. That's $720/sf! Ridiculous.formed
    • Hell, that's not cheap if it included the land! No one will buy these.formed
    • Call me when it fits in my pocket and can unfold into this size.NBQ00
  • Krassy3

    Leopold Banchini, Marramarra Shack, Marramarra Creek, 2020

    http://www.leopoldbanchini.com/