pretentious art
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- maikel0
You know studied fine art myself, been visiting exhibitions regularly and checking the what the graduates of the so called best colleges where doing... and I found 2 or 3 things that make a lot of people feeling like asking for their money back.
- The art market used to be managed by collectionists and galleries, and right now a lot of investors and wealthy people in general buy art to speculate with the price. The capitalism damaged the market heavily and as a result you see 'products' sold as art (Hirst's polkadots anyone?)
- Transgression was always valued, as such the barriers of traditional art were broken, and suddenly there was this thing as performances or installations, breaking the barriers of sculpture, visual and performing arts. Add to that the digital media and you have an exiting scenario. The only problem with that, is that meny people decided to be transgressive without mastering the technologies or techniques behind the art. That produced good results (you can think of punk music as a valid analogy) and bad ones, people trying to be rebellious without being talented.
- Lastly, the political correctness were 'everybody can do anything' and you discriminate if you do not agree with that made the whole scene a lot worse. Many years ago a person without talent was simply told "you are a failure, why not better try doing something else" - at the moment you cannot say that, and while a lot people is happier, the by-product is a ton of shit art made by people who should never have even tried it. Because -unfortunately- to make good art you need to have some talent, of some sort.
When you think about it, there are a lot of overrated music bands and nobody bothers (x factor crap anyone) and even overrated people, famous pretty much for doing nothing (WAGs?). So I wonder how come if art is a true mirror of society how that wouldn't surface.
My wording posting of the day.
- a lot of sentiments I agree with here.Amicus
- I agree 100 percent...loool
- not sure what I wanted to say with wording... probably Lion decided that wordy wasn't a nice word...maikel
- ...apart from the assertion that punk music is 'good'.mikotondria3
- fadein110
pretentious because you don't understand it... get so bored of these artist vs charlatan debates... yawn
- everybody hail the all - knowing fadein11loool
- < plenty of though in theremaikel
- just heard it all before 100s of times - 99% of artisits mean what they do with all of their hearts/lives - its rarely a confadein11
- I'm kidding fade! of course I have heard it all before 100 times...but I am trying to be as objective as I can...loool
- loool0
These things happened long time ago, when people started using new techniques and expressions, for example video cameras and make video art without any basic knowledge about arts or its techniques.
There is this video...I really didn't understand anything about it when I first saw it:but then I read somewhere that this is the Warhol's laugh in the face, rebel against people who are using new techniques without even completing the basics...then it made some sense to me
- very interesting.Hombre_Lobo
- I'm hungry nowMiguex
- Im thinking of ripping this, and using it when I'm vjing, behind the dj, it's so random, and I love it because of thatMiguex
- would be amazing to have a series of random celebrities eating hamburguers like thisMiguex
- Miguex do you know this artist? http://www.youtube.c… portraits of celebritiesloool
- I do not, looks good!Miguex
- maikel0
^ Warhol was a genius with a great sense of humour.
What I really like about his work is that the visual product of his work is also stunning. You can spend hours reading about why he was doing what he did AND you can also go to a gallery, and enjoy watching his screen prints. That richness in layers, where you can instantly appreciate his art in a sensorial way but also add depth by understanding what was behind it makes what I call good modern/contemporary visual art.- true... warhol was wonderful... some of his imitators were not, but that's not his fault at all....vaxorcist
- pr20
maikel, Robert Hughes - one of modern great art critics would disagree about Warhol:
- I agree, collectors know shit. (see my first post) but I disagree about Wharhol being untalented. It is not ...maikel
- ... technically superb as (let's say) Bacon, but he laughed about idiotic collectors as the one portrayed in this vid....maikel
- yeah but "good looks" of his work can't the only validator for its greatness. Beauty is the easiest beast to conquer.pr2
- i think their collecting of warhol is simply a business decision, so they can manipulate the price of the works.WrappedInBooks
- Hombre_Lobo0
I'm sure I'll get serious abuse from some beret wearing Frenchmen, but here goes.
I'm not a contemporary art fan. I find it serves little purpose, which is why I much favor design over art.
Designers being problem solvers, being given a brief and working towards a solution, which helps improve the experience or speed of a process/interaction etc etc and more so the amount of people good design can have an impact on OR how it can change industries. That's way more difficult than creating a piece sitting in an exhibition which really does nothing and means little.
However really skilled traditional art stuff like a stunning oil painting, an incredible drawing or a good sculpture, that shit is great. It takes some real skill and some real craft. But some smashed plates in the middle of a room that symbolizes x y z? Errr no thanks. I sometimes think these people couldn't hack it as designers so became artists to do whatever they want. Rant.
- yawnfadein11
- art and craft are 2 v.different things - please dont even compare themfadein11
- artists can do whatever they want - thats the point!fadein11
- see below dude :)Hombre_Lobo
- fadein110
@Hombre_Lobo - dont take this the wrong way but have you had any art/design education? Or did you come into this from the coder route.
Don't throw your toys out of the pram - just wondering?- VHombre_Lobo
- Im also offended you suggested I came from the coder route...like those IT programmers turned designers!Hombre_Lobo
- Hombre_Lobo0
@fadein11
its ok dude, im open to discussion and criticism.
My studies? Graphic design in school/college, degree in multimedia design at uni."art and craft are 2 v.different things - please dont even compare them" That's what I was i saying, I was just making sure people didn't think I despise anything classed as art. And yeh artists can do whatever they want, but because of that I often find the things they produce completely pointless.
- vaxorcist0
There is some interesting and good stuff out there.... and more than anyone, I love a good mindfuck art piece....
Duchamp was a prankster long before anyone alive now...
There is a whole lot of crap, not quite there, "contractually obligated art",..... I remember comments about Mary Boone getting her artists addicted to an "expensive lifestyle so they would produce art for the market" .... and it showed for years....
I wish there were some better critics, I have serious beefs with Robert Hughes, and I don't think he really got Worhol.... but Hughes did at least try to do things most current critics ignore....
Curators and Collectors are in a strange cahoots.... such crap gets foisted upon us ....
but when you least expect it, something amazing happens.. like seeing a "you are beautiful" sticker on a thrift store trash can in Chicago, placed at just the right angle, in front of a red painted wall, with the scratched up lid of the trash can bent just a bit.... that was great...
- "such crap gets foisted upon us", then segues into "you are beautiful"..snarl
- vaxorcist0
I went to MFA grad school years ago.... got into a shouting match with a supposedly famous curator, because I caught her looking at the artists resumes BEFORE looking at the art, and I pointed it out loudly, as I thought it was the HEIGHT of exactly what's wrong with the art world... shitheads who care more about the artist's "profile" than about the, uh, actual work....
she told me I was hopelessly naive.... and I'm sure I was.... and I'm happy to stay that way.... the shelf-life of my MFA has long since gone, and I'm no longer in that world, but I'm okay with it... I had a few friends rate their self esteem by the number and type of gallery shows they had, and I have a couple of friends currently struggling to get tenure after teaching for years in university art departments... .. a life I'm soooooo glad I avoided....
- but I do know some amazing under the radar artists.... they're not seeking the circus fame life, but they could live it gracefully....vaxorcist
- BRNK0
Look at illustration, that's where anyone with actual picture-making ability is. A lot of illustrators make fine art too, since illustration isn't much of an industry these days, sadly.
How can you argue with James Jean? Kent Williams? Malcolm Liepke? Dan Adel? Those are just a few super talented, hard working cross-over dudes off the top of my head.If you think the art world sucks, you're not looking hard enough.
- illustration is a bit soul-less art. look at Malcolm Liepke? yes, he's an illustrator and nothing more - pretty pictures with no soul or ideas.pr2
- heart or ideas.pr2
- ouch man, i'm an illustrator - i hope i'm not soulless... i'll look inside shortly, after i eat some childrenbjladams
- ok, soul-less might be too strong but i suspect you are not interested in reaching the "glory" with your work.pr2
- dont understand "reaching glory"? hold on, my puppy's almost done cooking, brb ;-)bjladams
- you know, by throwing those smirk remarks you are not really helping discussion here...pr2
- my apologies- i draw because i like to, and i get $ for it. i'm not sure what else there is really to say... i'll carry on with my day i suppose.bjladams
- suppose...bjladams
- bjladams0
i've got an exhibit this weekend that i'm setting up for now-
mostly, it's an excuse to hang out- the pictures on the wall are usually just an icebreaker for people to start conversation.
if the conversation was good, i consider it a good show.
it also helps me put worth on the drawings i do when i sell - cause i think the pretentious part of the art is when the value is all off
- maikel0
we blame artist for being pretentious, but how do you make a living by producing something which by definition has no function other than being?
- vaxorcist0
well... a HUGE part of all of this is economics..... as long as we're looking in "the usual places".. i.e. high-end galleries
Galleries have to pay rent and curators and such.... so the works have to sell for $xxxxx, artist gets a percent, etc... those who can actually BUY art for $xxxxx are usually "the 1%" ... and often are stockbrokers, and/or people with that mindset....
This has been the case since the 80's.. every so often, the art market crashes and things get more interesting...
and/or we learn to look elsewhere... there's some cool stuff out there....
- loool0
I don't really think that arts are useless compared to design. Artists are experimental, and they don't answer to anyone for their product - not like designers. I personally think that art goes somewhere and breaks the boundaries, and then design is using and exploiting that new ground...
- Miguex0
can I just say that this thread is awesome?
carry on please, I'm reading
- gregorywieber0
Interesting conversation. If I could add something, I would just say that there have been more than a few times in my life when I revisited something I once thought was bullshit with new eyes and a different appreciation for it. I guess because of that I've tried to take the approach that if I don't like something, there's a good chance I don't yet understand it. That's clearly not always going to be the case – a lot of stuff IS bullshit. Critical thinking, IMHO, is extremely important. But there's a fine line between critical thinking and cynicism.
- mikotondria30
Art Communicates, Design Works, Craft Beautifies.
They are regions of a venn diagram where they all intersect. All are progressing and developing at all times. One can be a master of one, and have no interest of skill in another, or master all 3; They exist as different languages to describe the space between a creator a subject and a consumer.
- twokids0
Art, as we know it, you know, Picasso and so on...it's dead.
Who communicates through painting anymore? It's a digital world.
We probably don't even know who the artists of today really are.