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I've always been a pretty good artist, was suppose to attend art school, never did. Had a son early and ended up doing manual labor. I'm sure someone in here can enlighten me on which path to take.
Thanks in advance.
art vs manual labor? you need advice for this?
- truth be told - all the guys in my family but me are contractors. I do miss building houses and pouring concrete sometimes.bulletfactory
- ... when stuck behind a computer on a beautiful day.bulletfactory
- I also miss the hands-on work building stuff (three home renovations growing up)monospaced
- Work is work, I just wouldn't mind getting paid for my creativity...YearzOne
All joking aside..... At least somebody in the Real Estate / Architecture / Engineering / Building / Construction / Repair industry has the need for a website and business card, and logo.
Note that if these people don't think of you as a designer, it may be good to do a website / identity / logo for at least one or two close friends side projects....
Note also that the actual writing and photo quality in a website for these industry type projects are often terrible and cut-pasted from something random, so be willing to rewrite and rephotograph, and/or collaborate with somebody who can write and photograph.
do you have any designer friends that would be willing to help you? I'm thinking you may want to sit down to a beer/coffee with them and just chat about what you may want to do and what you would need to do to explore your options. It will greatly benefit you to figure out if you want to start learning illustrator and photoshop to help your art become usable designs. Get all the info you can and then make a choice as to which direction you may want to go in.
I have no idea what your work is like, experience level,etc, so don't feel insulted if this seems over the top....
I think that the graphic design biz is not so different from the architecture / construction biz, especially carpentry, as all the bonehead classes in the world don't teach you as much as a bit of apprenticeship style experience. Also, the shit hits the fan when the clients change their mind randomly. And you have unexpected stuff happen. And you have to keep people with contradictory ideas happy. My GF works in an archiitecture firm, so I've heard stories....
Unfortunately, one idea where the graphic design biz is different is in clients thinking that their random ideas can get you to change your design in 5 minutes, because it's on a computer screen rather than set in stone and concrete..... so you may have to learn how to defend your ideas and choices and/or consider consequences of whim-based customer idea injections.... rather than point to an obvious pile of concrete and say "that change is going to cost a lot"
As a freelancer, you may have one huge advantage... the ability to have a side job that pays the bills while you're getting started. It's not like you're leaving some office cube job with benefits and a huge mortgage and such.....
I also think that you should, if you're starting out, make tons of mistakes in private before you start really hyping yourself out there, find some friends with really good eyes and visual feedback... so when you hang out your shingle, you're as finished as anyone, and not just an "also ran" who "tried to get into the business"
Some HUGE difficulties for people starting out:
1.Qualifying clients..it's had finding people who will trust you and not drive you crazy and actually have money and a compelling story to sell, it's easy finding clients without money who will drive you crazy.
2. Directing things so that they get done, on time, without random shit added and/or able to react clearly to changing business circumstances and equitably sharing the risk.... Architecture / Construction biz may have some insight here.... beginning designers often work on projects that seem simple but take forever...
3. making sure everything that goes out the door is really, really good, not just "good enough" as designers are often judged not on their best work, but some clients notice any sign of something not quite right, as they know what's not great but have little idea of what is great....
knee pads, lip balm
if you're not going to go to school, you won't have a piece of paper saying what you (should) know, but you don't have to have that paper.
what you do need examples of what you can do.
do you know p-shop, illustrator, indesign, etc?
make sites - html, css...?
This is a really long read, but I think it's relevant here. As you will see illustrated in the sections where George sells computers, it just takes a little convincing and you can sell anyone anything. Or, you can just sell the stuff to yourself and then send it all back.
% The Costanzas are driving in the car.
Frank: I got no leg room back here. Move your seat forward.
Estelle: That's as far as it goes.
Frank: There's a mechanism. You just pull it, and throw your body weight.
Estelle: I pulled it. It doesn't go.
Frank: If you want the leg room, say you want the leg room! Don't blame
George: All right, Dad, we're five blocks from the house. Sit
Frank: Like an animal. Because of her, I have to sit here like an animal!
Serenity now! Serenity now!
George: What is that?
Frank: Doctor gave me a relaxation cassette. When my blood pressure gets
too high, the man on the tape tells me to say, 'Serenity now!'
George: Are you supposed to yell it?
Frank: The man on the tape wasn't specific.
George: What happened to the screen door? It blew off again?
Estelle: I told you to fix that thing.
Frank: Serenity nowww!
Patty: So I told Bobby and Lisa that we'd try the new Chinese Spanish
place La Caridad on Saturday.
Jerry: Oh, I thought we had tickets for the Knicks home opener.
Patty: Well I thought this would be more fun so I gave the tickets away.
Jerry: What? All right, fine.
Patty: Are you mad at me?
Jerry: No, I love a good Chinese Spanish whatever it is.
Patty: You know... I've never seen you mad.
Jerry: I get peeved.
Patty: I'd like to see you get *really* mad.
George: Why does she want you to be mad?
Jerry: She says I suppress my emotions.
George: So what do you care what she thinks.
Jerry: Good body.
George: She probably gets that impression because you're cool.
You're under control. Like me. Nothing wrong with that.
Jerry: But I get upset, I've yelled. You've heard me yell.
George: Not really. Your voice kind of raises to this comedic
pitch. (Kramer enters)
Jerry: Kramer, I am so sick of you comin' in here and eatin' all my food.
Now shut that door and get the hell out of here!
Kramer: (Laughing) What is that, a new bit?
George: I told ya. Hey, any of you guys want to come out and help me fix
my father's screen door in Queens?
Jerry: Sorry, I'm fixing a screen door in the Bronx.
Kramer: I'll do it.
George: Really? You wanna come?
Kramer: Yeah, I love going to the country.
Elaine: Where are they goin'?
Jerry: Fix a screen door in Queens.
Elaine: (Laughing) That's funny. Hey, listen, what are you doin' Saturday
Jerry: Not goin' to the Knick game.
Elaine: I need someone to go with me to Mr. Lippman's son's Bar Mitzvah.
Jerry: You know, if you don't bring a guest they save a catering. You
should be able to buy a cheaper gift.
Elaine: (Taking out Boggle) Oh, I don't think that's possible.
Kramer: (Holding camera) Get in a little closer. I can't see the screen
door. (Takes picture) Perfect.
George: Dad, the hinges are all rusted here. That's why the wind keeps
blowing the door off.
Estelle: I hate that old door. Throw it out!
Frank: Serenity now!
Kramer: It might be time to just let her go, Frank. She's worked
hard for ya.
Frank: Will you put her to rest for me?
Kramer: Oh yeah, I'll take good care of her. (Rips out the screen door)
Estelle: (From other room) Get George to put those boxes in the
George: Dad, what's all this?
Estelle: (From other room) It's junk.
Frank: My computers. I've been selling them for two months now. Shut up!
George: You're selling computers?
Frank: Two months ago, I saw a provocative movie on cable TV. It was
called The Net, with that girl from the bus. I did a little reading,
and I realize, it wasn't that farfetched.
George: Dad, you know what it takes to compete with Microsoft and
Frank: Yes, I do. That's why I got a secret weapon... my son.
Jerry: Damn it, they gave me cream! I asked for nonfat milk!
Patty: I think they have 1% over there.
Jerry: 1%?! They can kiss 1% of my ass!
Patty: OK, Jerry, enough. I'm not buying it.
Jerry: You're damn right you're not buying it!
Patty: You shouldn't have to try. It's just being open.
Jerry: I'm open. There's just nothing in there.
Patty: Sarcastically) Uh huh.
Jerry: Oh, you think I'm lying about this?
Patty: I think you are.
Jerry: Well, I'm not.
Patty: Yes, you are, liar.
Jerry: Oh, stop it.
Patty: OK, liar.
Jerry: That's enough!
Patty: Ooh, that was good.
Jerry: Really? It felt good.
Elaine: Congratulations, Mr. Lippman.
Lippman: Oh, Elaine. My boy's a man today. Can you believe it? He's
Elaine: Oh, congratulations, Adam. (Adam zealously French-kisses
Adam: I'm a man!
George: Wow! I didn't try that 'til I was 23.
Jerry: Well this kid's not just a man. He's a man's man.
Elaine: And I think he's been telling his friends. I got invitations to six
more Bar Mitzvahs. (phone rings)
Jerry: Hello? Yeah, this is Jerry Seinfeld. No, no, no, I do not want to
stop over in Cincinnati. Well, then you upgrade me. That's right, you
should thank me. Goodbye. (Hangs up) Hey, I'm flyin' first class.
Elaine: Where did that come from?
Jerry: Patty showed me how to get mad. You gotta problem with that?
George: All right, relax, tough guy. I got to go out to my father's
garage, help him sell some computers.
Jerry: What? The two of you workin' in that garage is like a steel cage
George: What-what are you doing?
Kramer: Oh, I'm putting up Frank's screen door. This beauty's got a
little life in her yet.
Jerry: What do you need it for?
Kramer: (Closing door) The cool evening breezes of Anytown, USA. Let's see
how this baby closes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
George: Morning, ma.
Estelle: (From another room ) You're late!
George: Morning, dad.
Frank: I'm not 'dad' in the workplace. My professional name is Mr.
Costanza, and I will refer to you as 'Costanza'. Morning, Braun.
Lloyd : (Handing Frank coffee) Morning, George. Two cream, no sugar.
George: What is Lloyd Braun doing here?
Frank: Your mother recommended him.
George: Yeah, of course she did. That's all I ever heard growing up
is 'Why can't you be more like Lloyd Braun?' Did you know he was in a
Frank: I didn't read his resume.
Braun: (Ringing the sale bell) Another sale, Mr. Costanza. Chalk me up on
the big board.
George: (Inquiring about the chalk board) What is this?
Frank (Drawing a zero under George's name) This is your lagging. Good
Estelle (From another room) Good for you, Lloyd!
Elaine: So Adam, I just talked to your father, and, apology
Adam: I'm not apologizing. It was great. I told everyone.
Elaine: Yeah, I know. Uh, by the way, could you do me a favor and
tell Mitchell Tanenbaum that I will be unable to attend this Saturday.
Adam: Are you free Friday night?
Elaine: I am, but that is not the point. You are thirteen, and I am
in my early... 20s.
Adam: But I'm a man. The rabbi said so.
Elaine: No. You are not a man. It takes a *long* time to become a
man. I mean, half my friends aren't even there yet.
Adam: Well, if I'm not a man, then this whole thing was a sham! First,
they said I was gonna get great gifts, and then, somebody gives me
Boggle. I renounce my religion!
Lippman: Who wants cookies?
Adam: As of this moment, I am no longer Jewish. I quit!
Elaine: (Eating) Walnuts, mmmmmm.
Frank: You're late again, Costanza, so listen up. Starting tonight, we're
having a little sales contest. The loser gets fired, the winner
gets a Waterpik.
Estelle: (From another room) You're not giving away our Waterpik!
Frank: Serenity now!
George: You know what? It doesn't matter, because I quit!
Frank: I guess your mother was right. You never could compete with Lloyd
Braun! (Lloyd rings his sale bell and smiles)
George: You wanna sell computers? I will show *you* how to sell
computers! Hello, Mr. Farneman. You wanna buy a computer? No? Why
not? All right, I see! Good answer! Thank you! (Lloyd rings his sale bell)
Elaine: Adam, you don't become a man overnight. Look at your
father. It takes time. Patience, experience. Uh, several careers of
varying success. And these are things I look for in a man.
Adam: (Storming out of the room) Well, that does me a lot of
good. 'Early 20s'!
Elaine: Well, I'm sorry, sir, I tried.
Lippman: So, that's the type of guy you're looking for?
Elaine: Uhh. I guess so. Why? (Mr. Lippman vigorously starts
making out with her)
Patty: (Surveying Kramer's hall patio ) What is this?
Jerry: (Knocking on Kramer's door) Anytown, U.S.A. Hello? Is Kramer
home? Oh, hey.
Kramer: (Spraying his flowers) Hello, neighbor.
Jerry: Boy, those azaleas are really coming in nicely.
Kramer: Oh, you gotta mulch. You've got to.
Jerry: You barbecuing tonight?
Kramer: (Ringing his wind chimes) Right after the fireworks.
Jerry: So, where do you want to eat tonight?
Patty: How about La Caridad again?
Jerry: Again!? How much flan can a person eat!?
Patty: Jerry, you've been yelling at me all afternoon.
Jerry: Well, I don't think more flan is the answer!
Patty: Maybe I should just leave.
Jerry: Double good-bye! (As Patty leaves, open door reveals Kramer,
sitting on his lawn chair with a sparkler)
Kramer: Hey, buddy!
Elaine: (Coming in Jerry's apartment) Hey. Happy New Year!
Kramer (Getting the door slammed on him) Y'all come back reeeaall...
Elaine: Did you and Patty just break up?
Jerry: Yeah! In fact, she broke up with me! And I don't want to talk about
Elaine: Well, then you're free tonight. You know what, I heard
about this great place called La Caridad.
Jerry: That's the last thing she said to me. She wanted to go there also,
but I wasn't in the mood.
Elaine: Whoa. What is the matter?
Jerry: It's Patty.
Elaine: Jerry, you break up with a girl every week.
Jerry: (Crying) What--what is this salty discharge?
Elaine: Oh my God. You're crying.
Jerry: This is horrible! I care!
Jerry: Patty won't call me back. I don't know if I can live without her.
Kramer: She's really gotten to you, hasn't she?
Jerry: I don't know what's happening to me.
Kramer: Simple. You let out one emotion, all the rest will come
with it. It's like Endora's box.
Jerry: That was the mother on Bewitched. You mean Pandora.
Kramer: Yeah, well, she... had one, too. (George enters)
George: Jerry, can I talk to you for a second? (They enter Jerry's
Kramer: (Baseball flies at Kramer and hits him) That's it, that's it! I
warned you kids. I told you not to play in front of my house.
This time, I'm keepin' it. And you're not getting back your rock either!
George: (hearing Jerry broke up with Patty) Are you still down in
the dumps? Come on. It's just a chick.
Jerry: You ever heard of a little thing called feelings?
George: Well, I got just the thing to cheer you up. A computer!
Huh? We can check porn, and stock quotes.
Jerry: Porn quotes... I'm so lucky to have a friend like you, George. Ever
tell you how much I love you?
Jerry: I love you, George. Come here.
George: I-I'm already here. I'm here. I'm here. Uh, you know what?
If you want a computer, call me. I-I gotta go.
Jerry: Go wherever you want. I'm still gonna love you.
Kramer: Look what they did. Look what they did to my house! I turn my back
for two seconds, and they put shaving cream all over my door. You, I see
you! I'll teach these kids a lesson. Where's that house I put under your
Jerry: Hose under my sink. I love *you*, Kramer!
Kramer: I love you, too, buddy, and George--
George: I don't want to hear it, Kramer!
Kramer: Listen, when I give you the signal, I want you to turn this
water on full blast.
George: What signal? What-what signal?
Kramer: I'll yell, uh, 'Hoochie mama!'
George: If I do it, will you buy a computer?
Kramer: On the signal, George. On the signal.
George: Only if you buy. I gotta make a sale.
Jerry: I love you, Costanza.
George: Will you shut up?!
Kramer: Now! Now, George! Turn on the faucet! George, turn on the
faucet! Hoochie mama! Hoochie mama! Hoochie mamamaaaaa!
Elaine: So now the *other* Lippman kissed me.
George: Well, sure. They're Jewish, and you're a shiksa.
George: It means a non-Jewish woman.
Elaine: I know what it means, but what does being a shiksa have to
do with it?
George: You've got 'shiksappeal'. Jewish men love the idea of
meeting a woman that's not like their mother.
Elaine: Oh, that's insane.
George: I'll tell you what's insane: the price that I could get you
on a new desktop computer.
Elaine: I am not buying a computer from you.
George: There's porn.
Elaine: (Pausing) Even so.
George: Damn it!
Elaine: Don't get me wrong, Mr. Lippman. I-I'm very flattered that
you found me attractive enough to... lunge at me. Huh. But the only reason
you like me is because I'm a shiksa.
Lippman: That's simply not true.
Elaine: If you weren't Jewish, you wouldn't be interested in me.
Lippman: You are wrong. I'll prove it.
Elaine: Oh, no. Don't!
Lippman: I renounce Judaism!
Elaine: Oy vey!
Jerry: What happened to you, pal?
Kramer: Joey Zanfino and some of the neighborhood kids. They
ambushed me with a box of 'Grade A's.
Jerry: Are you all right?
Kramer: Oh, no. I'm fine. Serenity now. Serenity now. Serenity now.
Jerry: So, you're using Frank's relaxation method?
Kramer (Trying to open a back of chips) Jerry, the anger, it just melts
right off. Serenity now. Look at this. Serenity now!
Elaine (Entering Jerry's apartment) Hey, what happened to you?
Kramer: Serenity! (He exits)
Elaine: Well. You are not gonna believe this. Now Lippman is
renounced. This shiksa thing is *totally* out of control. What is
*with* you people? What are you looking at?
Jerry: Sit down, Elaine.
Elaine: Oh, no. Jerry, I can't take any more gentle sobbing.
Jerry: I've been thinking about what it means to be complete.
Elaine: Do you have an apple or anything?
Jerry: Look at us, hurtling through space on this big, blue marble.
Elaine: Or a nectarine? I would absolutely love a nectarine.
Jerry: Looking everywhere for some kind of meaning...
Elaine: Why am I in such a fruit mood? Ahh, banana!
Jerry: When all the while, the real secret to happiness has been right in
front of us!
George: (Entering Jerry's apartment with a cartload of computers) Jerry,
I've found a way to beat Lloyd Braun! I buy the computers myself, I
store 'em in your apartment. Then, after I win the contest, I bring 'em all
back and get my money back. Ha ha! It's brilliant. What? What's
wrong with your leg?
Jerry: I'm asking Elaine to marry me.
George (Leaving) I'll store these over at Kramer's apartment.
Elaine: Uhh, Jerry, I've got a lot goin' on with, uh, Lippman
Elaine (Trying to get her bag to leave) Yeah, and him too. What?! Oh,
yeah! I think George is calling me, so I'm gonna go give him a hand.
Come on! Come on!
Jerry: Can I help you?
Elaine: No. Stay! Stay. Stay.
Frank: Hey, Braun, Costanza's kicking your butt!
George (using the phone) Watch how it's done. Oh, hello, Mr. Vandelay?
Would you like to buy a computer? Oh, really? Two dozen?
Frank: Costanza, you're white hot!
Phone: If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and--
Frank: Hey, Braun, I got good news and bad news. And they're both the
same: you're fired. Costanza, you've won the water pik!
Estelle: You're not gonna give away that water pik!
Frank: You wanna bet? Serenity now, serenity now!
Lloyd: You know, you should tell your dad that 'serenity now' thing
doesn't work. It just bottles up the anger, and eventually, you
George: What do you know? You were in the nut house.
Lloyd: What do you think put me there?
George: I heard they found a family in your freezer
Lloyd: Serenity now. Insanity later.
Jerry: (Entering the hallway to his apartment) What happened here,
Kramer: Serenity now, serenity now...
Kramer: Geez! Jerry, I didn't here you come in. Yeah, the children,
they've done sum redecorating. Serenity now, serenity now.
Jerry: You don't look well.
Kramer: Well, that's odd, 'cause I feel perfectly at peace with the
world- uh! eggs! you! Serenity now, serenity now, serenity now.
Jerry: Oh, I'm sorry. Look at me, I stepped on your last rose.
Kramer (going into his apartment) Jerry, come on. Don't get upset about
it. There's always next spring. Now will you excuse me for a moment.
George: Jerry! I did it! Haha! I beat Braun!
Kramer: (crashing and banging in his apartment) Serenity now!
George: Come on, wanna give me a hand with the computers?
Kramer: (Crashing and banging around) Serenity nooooowwwww!
George: Why couldn't you squeeze one of those stupid rubber balls
to get your stress out? Why did you have to destroy *twenty-five*
Kramer: (Leaving) George, you listen to me. I owe ya one.
Jerry: He's incorrigible. You want to talk about it?
George: Oh, please don't tell me you love me again, Jerry, I can't handle
Jerry: George, letting my emotions out was the best thing I've ever done.
Sure I'm not funny anymore, but there's more to life than making
shallow, fairly-obvious observations. How about you?
George: All right... here goes...
Elaine: Rabbi, is there anything I can do to combat this
Rabbi: Ha! Elaine, shiks-appeal is a myth, like the Yeti, or his North
American cousin, the Sasquatch.
Elaine: Well, something's goin' on here, 'cause every able-bodied
Israelite in the county is driving pretty strong to the hoop.
Rabbi: Elaine, there's much you don't understand about the Jewish
religion. For example, did you know that rabbis are allowed to date?
Elaine: (About to leave) Well, what does that have to do...?
Rabbi: You know, a member of my congregation has a timeshare in Myrtle
Beach. Perhaps, if you're not too busy, we could wing on down after
the High Holidays? Elaine? 'Lainie?
George: So, that's it. All of my darkest fears, and... everything I'm
capable of. That's me.
Jerry: Yikes. Well, good luck with all that.
George: Where you going? I-I thought I could count on you for a
Jerry: I think you scared me straight.
Elaine: All right, Jerome, I'm in.
Elaine: Maybe we should get married. Maybe everything we need is
right here in front of us. Jer... let's do it.
Jerry: I tell ya, I don't see it happening.
Elaine: What? What happened to the new Jerry?
Jerry: He doesn't work here anymore.
Elaine: Oh, well that's just *great!*
George: I love you, Jerry.
Jerry (Leaving) Right back at ya, Slick.
George: You know, all these years, I've always wanted to see the
two of you get back together.
Elaine: Well, that's because you're an idiot.
Frank: You single-handedly brought Costanza and Son to the brink of
George: Well what about all the Lloyd Braun sales?
Frank: He's crazy. His phone wasn't even hooked up. He just liked ringing
Estelle: I told you to clean out this garage. I have to put my car
Frank: This is a place of business. I told you never to come in here.
Estelle: All right...
George: Dad, you really should lay off the 'serenity now' stuff.
Frank: So, what am I supposed to say?
George: 'Hoochie mama'?
Estelle: Move your crap, I'm comin' in!
Frank: No you're not! Hoochie mama! Hoochie mama!
let's see some of your art.
Art and design aren't the same thing. That's all I'll contribute.
If you were a good artist already you don't need school just find yourself a good art dealer.
1. Create some mock projects (state that they are mock projects unless you actually execute on them and run them seperately).
2. Build a website to showcase projects (tumblr is free)
3. Talk about what you do to everyone and anyone.
4. Start freelancing.
5. Build up a cadre of real projects.
6. Rinse and repeat.
...or go corporate for that steady & boring but always welcome check
I was in your position in 04 and forced my way into the field.
& Don't take no for an answer.
Benchmark! It's not just about your work, but about what's already out there and how your work compares to it.... you're competing against the whole world.
Keep an eye out there for things you think are really good.
For growing an eye for good printed design, I'd do this:
Get a clear plastic box, say 11x14 by 6 inches tall from Target,etc
Collect magazine pages, tear sheets, ads, etc...
On the back of each page, put a yellow post-it note, make sure it sticks (add tape if needed)
write on the post-it:
1. date you found the page
2. what you liked about it, what you might do differently
3. whether it's business-to-business or business-to-consumer
4. who is this ad meant for, what's the target market?
5. is it a BIG company, or a small company?
every so often, go through this box, check out your changing taste over time... and see how business-to-business is different from business-to-consumer.... and see how the target market being radically different from you can still make work that may appeal to you....
oh. you do graffiti...
what are you good at and what would you liek to do?
the only thing I would say is to do it, document it and if you get a buzz try to crossover to the gallery scene but graff is passe in that scene I believe.