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- utopian0
I have 25k+ on the streets, I do hope to get paid....
- dirtydesign0
well that didnt work...
- akrok0
- < there you go.akrok
- thanks mandirtydesign
- you're welcome.akrok
- ********0
they almost always pay eventually.
- thumb_screws0
Unfortunately it's just the way freelance is. Try to build up a cash buffer in the first few years of about 6 months. I put 14 working days till payment on my invoices, kinda like when you tell your misses that you have to leave the house at 6 for dinner but the booking 'aint till 7.30. seems to work most of he time.
- Miguex0
here!
- ********0
in a sense, once you have a cash reserve built up, it almost doesn't matter how long it takes a client to pay, as long as they pay... in other words, the money still comes in with the same regularity, just farther down the road
- don't agree. it does matter when it comes in.akrok
- do you pay rent on time?
everything has a deadline.akrok - you're not getting what I'm saying, but it's too hard to explain it in this small space, so fuck it********
- hm...i see.akrok
- not hard. if you have build up cash. so you can run without cash for a longer timeakrok
- then your solid. as cash will come just later.akrok
- not saying I like it, mind you, but in a sense it doesn't matter as long as you eventually get paid********
- of course it do not matter if you have cash flow. but if you do not. then your stuck.akrok
- I said IF you have a cash reserve********
- +1 for IF! :-Dakrok
- identity0
why don't more people have safe-guards in place for work/time/money?
1) 1/2 up front, 1/2 on completion (hand over files)
2) 1/3 up front, 1/3 in the middle, 1/3 to hand over files.watermark your non-final imagery!
- Miguex0
Rand:
sorry but I disagree, I have reserves built up (would be crazy to be a freelancer w no reserves, if you are doing that, you should sign up for the next X-Games).
But cashflow is SUPER important, you need to be able to get your money on time always, like akrok said, everything has a deadline, I can't just go and tell my landlord things like:
a) listen, I'm still waiting to hear from my client so payment will take a couple of months, don't worry I'll pay up, have I ever let you down?
b) why don't you just let me stay this month for free, I will tell all my friends how awesome of a landlord you are? listen, send me your logo on a posterboard, and I will put that on my window, how is that? you'll be famous!
c) I'm going to stay a month on apt 3, then another month on apt 1 and then I'll move to apt 7, when I decide which one I like best, I'll pay you rent, how's that?
- you still have cash flow, it just started later********
- yeah, I can't have that. Not having it on time affects my ability to spend moneyMiguex
- not if you have a cushion greater than the delay in paying, it's all the same then********
- hahaaha, aaaaalright, lets agree on disagreeing :)Miguex
- +100 on cashflow, it's really all about cashflow.Mr_Right
- you still have cash flow, it just started later
- ********0
don't you get it? if everyone pays in 2 months instead of 2 weeks, after the initial month and a half delay, the money comes in at the same pace. as long as you don't need the money in the first month and a half, it makes no difference
- NotByHand0
You're making no sense at all, you fucking douchenozzle...
- canuck0
DON'T LISTEN TO HIM RAND.
HE'S SIMPLE!
- Greedo0
i think the basic disagreement is that rand's cushion is probably 6 months' worth of living expenses whereas miguex's cushion is beer money for next week.
hence the difference in urgency.
- fyoucher10
Getting 50% up front:
- Works sometimes, not all the time (or even most of the time). If you work for ad agencies especially. A lot of times the amount of time it takes to get approval on a purchase order, is about half the time in which they need the project completed. Ad agencies always come to you last second and need shit yesterday. That's just how the advertising industry works. So it's either accept the project with a net 30 payment, or they move onto someone else who will. Personally, I choose the net 30 payment and stop bitching. As for the mom and pop business that a lot of freelancers work with, yeah, definitely get money up front.Doesn't matter when you get paid (re:Rand):
- You've got a point and that works when you're dealing with smaller budgets. What happens when you need to outsource some of the project? You'll be shelling out of your nest egg in order to pay the contractors. Which might be okay if you've got the money to spare. Either or, you really don't want to be on that side of the fence.
- What happens when you work on a project in December, but don't get paid until January the next year. Then when you file your taxes, you'd usually be in this 'XX' % bracket. Now that you've gotten that extra payment from last year rolled into this years net, you're now one step up in a higher tax bracket. Now you're paying "this" much more money in taxes. FYI, once you make over 200k, you're taxes go up SIGNIFICANTLY and there's more chances of a tax audit from the good folks at the IRS. All because your clients paid you later.
- Let's say all of your clients paid you late. Imagine if they didn't. If you're making a significant amount of money, that could be INTEREST you could be accumulating. But instead, the client is making money on money they owe you.Clients should always pay on time. It's just good business practice. Unfortunately a lot of the time it's not your direct contact at the client's office that's in charge of the finances. Typically it's their finance person / accountant. And they're always looking for ways to save money and ways to make it look like the company is earning a profit. Even if it means paying you way late or even in the next year.
- If you are paying contractors then you aren't really freelance anymore.Amicus
- Then what are you, a business? FYI, freelance is a 'sole proprietor'. Another form of business entity.fyoucher1
- Maybe its diff in AU though. In the states its considered a business, even if you don't have employees.fyoucher1
- Amicus0
Rand is making a whole crapload of sense.
The finance geeks say that everyone should build up 8 months worth of expenses in an accessible, interest earning account.
I'd rather my cushion be 12 months as a freelancer. Money in the bank for any emergency including illness or injury that means you can't work for 6 months.
That being said I only have about 2 months worth at the moment.
- ********0
*trows halm
- ********0
Just this week my recruiter sent me my pay stub and never deposited my check.
I guess here comes the storm.
- tomorrow will be interesting.********
- explain ?lambsy
- They didn't pay me. There was no check issued. Just a fake statement.********
- tomorrow will be interesting.
- neue75_bold0
Rand's a kept man, he only designs the shit out of those motherfucking printed materials as a way to pass the time, whilst waiting for a spin on the rohapturnol punch buggy...
Personally, I think you're all fucked...
- maybe more designers need to actually do something of value...neue75_bold
- define value********