source files!
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- noneck0
There's been some good advice here so far, the biggest question is what was in the agreement that they signed. If you're in this spot, chances are you don't have an agreement, or the agreement isn't thorough enough. If that's the case, learn quickly. There are some great creative agreements out there that you can quickly appropriate.
The client probably wants source files so that they can get someone to make changes to the artwork if you disappear a week after the project is complete. It's probably happened to them already. While I don't typically give out source files, I've also learned that it's an ineffectual way to build repeat business.
One other thing. When the client asks for something, the quickest way to make things difficult for everyone is to say "No." People hate dead ends, so you should always provide a course of further action. Instead of just telling them a million reasons why you don't feel like you should have to give up the artwork, offer them a way to get what they want. "Source files? I don't normally provide them, my clients really don't have a need for them, or the tools or know-how to work with them. But we could amend the original contract to provide you with the source files for an additional $1200." (or whatever number you like).
- d_rek0
Yeah. Don't give up the source files.
Here's an angle which i've found to be quite successful:
"Since what you are paying for are the rights to use original works created by me, the designer, you legally do not *own* the intellectual property of the actual artwork, you are simply licensing the rights to use the artwork for an indefinite amount of time (or definite, depending on how you play your contracts). If you would like to discuss a buyout of the IP I can draw up some numbers for you to consider."
Then you simply go back, generate some astronomical figures and watch them renege.
Reality is though IP is hard to measure in $$$.. you have to consider their business, how and where the artwork is being used, so on and so far.
Ultimately I think clients understand $$$ and if they have to pay more for source then they're a helluva lot less likely to dish out the extra cash for them.
- plus, if you start talking rights management and IP then they think you know what you're talking about :)d_rek
- < Bingo.noneck
- BTW, nice work.noneck
- usually works, but some clients say stuff like "don't repeat all that mumbo jumbo you read on the web to me...."vaxorcist
- it's hardly mumbo jumbo, just do your homework and know what you're talking aboutd_rek
- valentim0
thanks for the advice and feedback on this issue, will have to change a few things on my contracts...
- vaxorcist0
good luck... the best idea is to find different clients and make sure the up front conversation includes clear agreements....
In the past, I worked at an agency whose client demanded source files and we knew it was because they wanted us to do the "hard creative part" and then send the "cut and paste part" to a cheaper agency, obviously a bad deal and some difficult conversations.. turns out the client was kidnapped by bean counters from hell and lost control of the process inside thier company...
- Milan0
good read:
- gabe0
after years of having experienced this situation from just about every possible point of view—as an agency/vendor needing files from another vendor (on behalf of a client), as a client needing files from an independent contractor, and as an independent contractor needing to provide source files to an agency—i've found it best practice to simply deliver the source materials and wish the client the best.
in reality, the stuff we're creating on a day-to-day basis isn't rocket science. we're all using or re-using similar instances of code to achieve the same results. provided you aren't sitting on any proprietary or innovative technology, what good does it do you to hold onto your source files? it just makes everyone's lives more difficult.
in the past, i've given up source files to clients only to have them come back at a later point and ask for our help to clean up someone the mess someone else made from our original files (which they of course pay for).
worst case scenario: you never hear from them again, but you maintain the relationship and people will look to you as being someone who is generally easy to work with. it's a lot more difficult to repair a burnt bridge than it is to have never burnt it in the first place. you never know when you'll run into that person again. who knows, maybe next time you'll find yourself needing their help.
- zarkonite0
I once asked my BMW dealership for the blueprints for car... they laughed and laughed and still charged me full price on the tune up.
Seems to be working out for them so far, you should be able to do business that way as well.
- There must be a formula to work out how long an internet conversation can go before a car analogy comes upPIZZA
- NONEIS0
Set a price that will make you feel better about losing any future work, never ever give them out for free, and never ever forget to include a line explicitly describing what they are paying for, i.e. the result of your work and not the files used to create it.
- vaxorcist0
is the work leverage-able?
i.e. is it something they would use in a template for thousands of similar items, or is it more of a one-off?
if it's leverageable, then it has potentially huge value that they may or may not realize... and... of course, that may be WHY they are asking for the source files....
otherwise, it really doesn't matter muich except for the principle of it all...
yes, you can hand it over if they're cool, if they're designers, but maybe some caveat about how, if they can't figure out the fonts, the software versions, etc... then you can provide tech support at $100/call minimum, or none at all....
and of course, check craigslist the next few days for something that looks like an ad for your replacement....
- vaxorcist0
I read some of the beginnings of this thread and wonder if it's a bit of an unspoken client aesthetic conflict... i.e. you refused to make the logo bigger, and since they think they've sunk so much of the budget, they'll just take the source files to somebody who WILL make the logo bigger and be done with it......
- tOki0
Ive done as airey has said earlier up before when faced with this problem. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
Often you will then get them come back 2 months later asking where the layered file of the background etc is. At this point it's obvious that all they want is the juicy stuff you were exactly trying to stop them getting at. I also bake my layer styles into elements. This basically means only text and positioning of things can be mucked with.
Most clients don't get it at all - even though they sign contracts which cover who owns IP and all, they still think they are entitled to get it and use it however they please. There are thousands of examples such as the BMW dealership where you can make an analogy. But at the end of the day most clients are too fucking cheap, stubborn or stupid to get it.
I think we all feel your pain on this issue.
We make clients pay 3x the value of the design or development if they want the source, and even then there are contractual agreements in place to cover it. The idea is if they are willing to jump through those hoops then they can have it if they really want it.
Most of the time it acts as a deterrent. At the end of the day they are coming to us to do something they can't and we need to protect that and the integrity of our work/reputation. If someone else hacks up your site for example which you are claiming to have done - it reflects very badly :(