Client stole my pitch
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- doesnotexist0
if you're really worried about some potential client using your ideas, which are nothing really without execution, get a contract.
it's the easiest solution and will help you make money.
otherwise, why give a fuck? don't covet your ideas.
- Dumb comment. Covet your process and method without fail.dMullins
- Iogout0
this thread is more than a year old. jesus christ people.
- microkorg0
<< what formed said.
Although sometimes you might think you are going to piss someone off by asking for payment for work but they end up saying "no probs, bill away".
- formed0
What are you calling "methodology"? That's the key, in this case, imho. To me, that's about a process, an approach to a solution, etc.
it is not about the actual design or what the end product will be.
Not really a way to protect yourself, you just have to feel each client out. I've spent tons of time educating, explaining how each step of the process will go, only to have the client jump to someone else that is cheaper once they feel comfortable.
But you can only do so much. Until the contract is signed (and even then, it is only the first step) and the deposit is cashed and cleared it is all still just a discussion, not a real project.
Advice - I'd ask them to explain what/why and explain how you spent time developing your "methodology" and that it is not something you wish to give to the competition, particularly when they are going to get the job and you aren't.
BUT I'd keep my head up and explain you would like to keep an open dialogue for future projects. Never burn bridges you don't need to, they could recommend you to someone else later on.(I am not a fan of this vindictive approach. It is not professional, nor is it good for the creative professions in general. Imho, it screams of desperation and little business experience. Pissing people off will come back to bite you. Be confident, learn what you can and move on.)
- some clients see "methodology" as "sales pitch" others see it as "free info"vaxorcist
- vaxorcist0
You probably didn't want them anyway as a client... IT shops are often the worst when it comes to second-guessing in my experience....
If they have no issues with stealing your pitch, they may have a lot of unlicensed software, you could always sic the Business Software Alliance (BSA != boy scouts) on them.... they'll audit every computer in their little IT empire (and possibly their clients) for all serial number compliance....
BSA audit... it's HELL I've heard.... It used to be the threat of unpaid software contractors to make sure they got paid....
- Ambushstudio0
Boz, is right, shit like this happens to us a lot, not that much anymore as now we kind of save the best for last, and are very very hermetic with our ideas, but I guess that will be stuff that will happen all the time, specially when you like a project a lot, I just start coming up with cool shit right there and then walk away from the meeting feeling like I just told the client everything he needed to know, and sometimes they like that attitude , other times they will just go with a cheaper version of us, there´s alway a cheaper version of you I guess, (should I
TM that?)
- autoflavour0
i hear guns are effective in solving these sorts of problems
- Boz0
I agree with lukus_W.. I think they were more like "he was a good guyd, let's tell him we kind of took seriously what he was suggesting" rather than ripping methodology off.
But here's an advice:
You can't ask for NDA from a client you are trying to win business from.. That's not how it works. Nobody will sign stuff like that, or they will sign it but it just makes you look negative right from the start.
What you should do, is excursive restraint in telling the client how you would do everything and ideas and so on... Until you make a contract with them, you don't give them your all. You just tease them, let them imagine what your capabilities and ideas might be, but you never disclose them until you have a contract for work or you are 100% sure you have started on a project you can invoice.
Trust me, I made the same mistakes.. I still do sometimes.. I am so passionate about creative, technology and what they should be doing I sometime blab it out on meetings because I like the client.. but it's always bad.. it can work for you in many cases because you appear like the most passionate and knowledgable person to them but you also have situations like you have, where they wilil take your ideas and roll with someone else.
But unfortunately you really have no one else to blame but yourself.
Let this be a reminder for you that when you pitch for work and you do meetings like this, you keep your best stuff and how the project should go on to the minimium..
If they ask you "oh we want to know more" or "how do we do this".. you just play very professional and say "ABSOLUTELY, we can go into all of these details when we really get into the project"..
It doesn't make you an asshole, but they know that you are willing to share a lot more if they give you a project..
Makes sense?
- monkeyshine0
so what happened?
- babaganush0
I'm no expert but I feel it hinges on if it was a paid pitch. If so was there a contract that stated they had a buyout if all assets etc?
If not did you have a copyright on your boards/documents?
I'd say if it was a free pitch and you had a copyright, you could definitely go back and professionally say it's not on and that your 'methodology' was your copyright until agreement if payment/commission for services was made.
You could even be polite in suggesting some kind of remuneration for future consultancy projects and as a business they must understand thy you will consult council as a matter of course because vagueness of IP is a huge death nell to creative business.
- cannonball19780
"I'm happy you liked my thinking and that you are moving forward with it. Since there is no NDA or anything signed I am going to to take this thinking on the road... test it our in other places you are in the market. Best of luck differentiating!"
- sorry I was "filtering" something and found thiscannonball1978
- duckofrubber0
Monkeyshine has the correct answer.
- Iggyboo0
Screw all of this nonsense and wasted time. Don't do Spec period, unless you're ok with gambling your time and some people are because the risk is worth the reward. But I cannot see how it could be for one man.
- lukus_W0
It sounds like a small admission. They were impressed with the way you were going to approach the project - and they've used it as a resource to guide the project. It read to me, like they were trying to reassure you that you provided sound advice.
I'd maybe suggest you're a little 'surprised'; while you're pleased they were impressed with your methodology, you would have ordinary expected some form of compensation if a company choose to make use of consultancy advice which adds value to it's business.
I'd then explain that - even though the above is true - you hold no hard feelings, and that you enjoyed pitching for them. You have a lot more to offer, have taken their feedback on board and look forward to working with them more fully in the future.
- raf0
"There's nothing I'm willing to do against this client. It would be fruitless and just make me look like an asshole, and you'd be surprised how quickly lots of people can find out you're an asshole."
This is just another way of saying...
"There's nothing I'm willing to do against this client. They're just making me look like a pushover and I'll be surprised how quickly lots of people can find out you're a pushover."
I am teasing you, of course, I am not really saying you should turn this into a war. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting paid for your work.
I would wait until they finish and only then invoice them. Having contacted an intellectual property lawyer first, of course.
You can offer them to lead the team, with your knowledge and considering they're using the methodology outlined in your proposal, as people suggested. This, if fails, only provides more evidence for your lawyer.
- bored2death0
That fucking sucks that stole your 'work'. I guess this illustrates why people like AIGA are so against spec work.
- With AIGA, you pay to pitch: http://www.aigadc.or…raf
- HAAHAHAHHA PAYING TO BE PAID?
fucking idiotsBIGGESTDOGINTHEWORLD
- SlashPeckham0
this client probably wont communicate your method as well as you -
solution - turn this into a good customer experience and grow your contact list at the same time here
- Speak to the client and tell them you are a bit disheartened by this and his guys might not get the total benefit from your own method. If you have an afternoon ask if you could visit this agency with them and present this yourself... the client will think you've gone above and beyond and the agency might use you for other stuff... if they say no then see above..
- kingsteven0
if they made a copy of your pitch to send to the other party, you may be able to sting them on copyright infringement; that's a criminal charge... possible in the states if you can find a lawyer to do it on contingency.
- isakosmo0
find a lawyer who specialises in intellectual property, there's laws in place for this type of situation.
if they have admitted in writing to using your intellectual property your case should be easier than most. Also let them know you have consulted a lawyer regarding their use of your property.