A Match for Neue Cond.
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- luckyorphan
Quick challenge...
What would you advise as a good match to Helvetica Neue Condensed.
I'm currently using Ultra Light, Thin, Light and Bold in different circumstances. All other weights are unused at the moment.
I'm looking for something to counter it with significance, but still play nicely. Something to use in huge strokes, and tiny details. I'm not sure what the right font is, but I'm looking for ideas.
Blackletter...Slab...Serif...Dec...
Thanks.
- luckyorphan0
^...that's supposed to read:
"Blackletter...Slab...Serif...De...
Not sure what happened there. I'm sure it was user error.
- johndiggity0
what's the context?
- < Luxury electronics.luckyorphan
- A lot of products on black is involved as well.luckyorphan
- BuddhaHat0
- Not sure I'm looking for a substitute for Helvetica Neue, thanks tho.luckyorphan
- Guess I'm looking for something more distinct from Neue.luckyorphan
- Can't stomach that font.non
- monospaced0
I think your first instinct is right. Blackletter.
I can't think of anything as perfect as some blackletter to really compliment Helvetica Neue Condensed. Having come from the same country and timeframe, these two types are forever typographically related. No doubt they will play together nicely, especially when it comes to those huge strokes and tiny details (whatever the fuck that means).
- johndiggity0
luxury usually connotes excess. the use of helvetica condensed as your main typeface seems at odds with what you are trying to do merely because of it's ubiquity and economy.
blackletter could work, but there is a fine line between seeming historic (not good for electronics) and seeming thuggish (not good for luxury brands).
i know nothing about the brand, but it sounds like it could benefit from a contemporary slab serif, with an extended or wide face, and a range of weights. think soho, or the new neutra slab. maybe even apex serif which has a slightly tech feel to it. but i'd definitely ditch the helv neue condensed. that belongs in catalogs.
- think ultra thins knocking out at large sizes on your black backgrounds. very authoritative.johndiggity
- < That's exactly what I'm doing at the moment.luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
^ Thanks johndiggity.
I can't agree with you more. The selection of Helvetica Neue happened way before I arrived on the scene, and it's been with the brand for a long time (20+ years), so there's no leaving it. It's what is approved by the layers of beaurocracy above me, and changing that is not an option.
But we are turning a corner, and I'd like to introduce a contemporary element to that. Oddly enough, historic wouldn't be too bad in this case. The company's been around since the 40s, and the brand has been in existence since the 50s. So something historic wouldn't be without reason.
But you're absolutely right about being careful to not appear too thuggish. That's the third rail I'm really trying to avoid. The brand is striving to recapture itself as bespoke, not bling. Right now, it's sort of slipped out of relevance, and it's my job to fix that.
Thanks again.
- luckyorphan0
One more note, the logo of the company is in Helvetica, so that's also unchangeable. There is no mark either – just the text. So I gotta keep that in mind.
- ADC?version3
- No...but a prize goes to whoever gets it right.luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
I've been looking at The Proteus Project lately from Hoefler & Frere-Jones. Nice super family of fonts that "connects nineteenth century ideas about typefounding with twenty-first century ideas about design." Ziggurat, Saracen, Acropolis and Leviathan are all solid, and I can see switching them in and out for different reasons, while still sticking with a general theme.
http://typography.com/fonts/font…
Thoughts?
- monospaced0
Oh, well, since the company's been around since the 1940s, it's definitely historic. In that case, using a blackletter type is appropriate as it was popular about 500 years ago, about when Helvetica Neue was drawn. I seriously can't think of a better combination for an established brand today.
- Irony is exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread. Thanks!luckyorphan
- jaylarson0
- Thanks Jay. I've already spent some time with this chart, but it's good to know that wasn't wasted time.luckyorphan
- But really, thank you for the help.luckyorphan
- jimzyk0
How about a google wave?
- johndiggity0
re: the proteus fonts, i think if you are looking to incorporate some of the characteristics of blackletter, then something like the very angular acropolis black and black italic might work well. also, using a face made for smaller sizes at display size might reveal some similar aesthetic qualities, like freight micro here:
or the more script-like (but somewhat angular) auto from underware:on the other end of the spectrum you could look to some updated blackletters like blaktur from house:
or fakir, also from underware:- This is exactly what I was hoping t hear. I'm leaning a bit more toward something like blaktur, but the others are intriguing.luckyorphan
- Tho the Proteus package is still leading.luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
Anything else seem like a compelling match? Forget the blackletter or slab.
Is there anything else worth-while that I'm overlooking? I guess I'm really just looking for something that would be pretty unique and adds a good deal of personality...but wouldn't alienate audiophiles and older rich men with trophy wives. (I shit you not – this is the marketplace we're in).
Just making sure I'm pushing it as far as I can before deciding.
Thanks, all.
- johndiggity0
if you are working for an audio brand, there's really not much wrong you can do. so much of what i see is shit, i'm sure it is going to be hard to alienate anyone, esp those that have such high brand loyalty as audiophiles.
- airey0
a slab work for anyone?
http://www.houseind.com/include/…- ...not bad. Thanks!luckyorphan
- ...sure would be curious about a fatter weight.luckyorphan
- ...on the font, that is.luckyorphan
- johndiggity0
i really like these for display right now:
glosa display from typetrust
typonine stencil from typonine
http://typonine.com/image/129/la…
mokka from ludwig type
gretta grande from typotheque
fedra sans display 2 also form typotheque
alda from berton hasebe- Very interesting. Glosa and Fedra are working at the moment. Thanks!luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
^ True. But in our case, there's much to be experimented with, at least. It's not been often that I've been asked to redevelop a global brand that wants to position itself in the luxury market, and while you're right about the garbage that is out there in the electronics world, I was hopng to do all I could do differentiate this brand from the rest – something that we allegedly do somewhat successfully with regards to our technology.
I figured, even if we don't see an increase in market share or buzz or anything for that matter, I'll at least have some compelling portfolio material. I'm just not into playing it safe or taking the easier road. If they want me to push it, let's go.
- gah - didn't refresh right...this is for johndiggity way up there.luckyorphan
- johndiggity0
good attitude. that market is truly wide open right now.
- Heh. No kidding. Hey, thanks for the help, man. Really appreciate it.luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
- imo, that's really uglymonospaced
- We have all noted your opinion and will file it appropriately.luckyorphan
- luckyorphan0
...and another slightly more traditional...
House Gothic 23 by House:
- never been a fan of merging caps with lowercase.jaylarson
- Fair point.luckyorphan
- That would look so fucking disgustingly shitty fucking ugly with Helvetica it's not even fucking FUNNY.monospaced
- < Thank you for your constructive feedback, mono.luckyorphan