Hackers just killed global warming
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- 215 Responses
- ukit0
F*ck it man, let them do their thing...assume for a sec GW is all a lie...renewable energy is still a worthy goal. We'll inch (ever so slowly) towards giving up oil and being less reliant on Middle Eastern dictators for our energy supplies. Ten years from now you won't need to buy $5/gallon gas, just plug your car into a wall.
What are you so afraid of?
- _niko0
Does anyone know the cause of the last ice age?
was it cavemen's fires? just curious.
- zenmasterfoo0
Ukit: here's the thing about electric cars - that electricity has to be generated by something. It won't work having a solar panel on your house and wind turbine technology isn't ready for it, so where does all that juice come from? Coal. One non-renewable source, supplanted by another. Yaay. Back to square one thinking.
- That's true, but it's more efficient and pollutes less. Saying it's not perfect doesn't mean it's not much better.ukit
- agreedzenmasterfoo
- pr20
You are missing the point! Those are all naturally occurring events but it happens that we humans speed those up tremendously. You leave a katle of water in a warm room and the water will get warm, but if you fire the burner under it it will get warm in no time soon to surpass the "warmth" stage and start bowling.
- for nikopr2
- but is that truly science or merely a hypothesis based on incomplete data gathered in parts over time?zenmasterfoo
- Fire up some water and seeukit
- tea anyone?zenmasterfoo
- pr20
zenmasterfoo, yes it is since in case of the bowling water on burning ketle. And yes, it's statistical science when i look at all the trash i generate and multiply it by millions and billions of the poulation. Obviously NOONE on this board is a scientist that can look over the rough data and jump to a calculated decision but we do have eyes and a basic math skills to figure out that "little" changes we make multiplayed by the sheer volume HAS to make an impact.
- raf0
My take is, the sooner we're out of fossil fuels, the sooner renewable energy will come. Fighting climate will only bring taxes and global control over people.
There are so many alternative technologies coming now... Not even including the wackos talking about zero point energy and so on http://peswiki.com/
You can easily power your laptop with a solar panel already. Well, not in Ireland, but in Saudi Arabia you can, hahaha.. Are they winning the lottery again? :)
- zenmasterfoo0
I just read an article detailing the % reduction in emissions here and abroad for electric cars. There's a big drop definitely, and I'm all for it, but the personal cost to fuel my vehicle still sits pretty freaking high. Not that I'm weighing the earth against my wallet (I am), but it's something to think about.
- lowimpakt0
raf - can you explain what you mean by global control?
also, part of the thinking behind a carbon tax is that you create the right market conditions for "alternative" technologies to enter. The problem is that there is too much intertia (and risk) in the market to pull these technologies through.
Another way could be that government reduce the massive subsidies on fossil fuels and fossil fuel infrastructure (auto industry, roads etc) -
either way the shift is going to have to be paid for.
- the idea that governments should never change their policies in response to changing realities is sillyukit
- pmBell0
We are a virus. Remove the virus and the world will right itself.
- ukit0
I think it's like any technology zenmasterfoo - the cost drops as it gets closer to mass production and companies are forced to become more efficient to compete. Think how much the cost of producing computers has dropped, or the difference in technology between a punch hole reading machine that fills half a room and your iPod.
Warren Buffet just invested 10 billion in BYD, a Chinese company that plans to mass produce electric cars. Is he an idiot but "blitznutty" is somehow right? Give me a f*cking break....
- But, yea, let's keep arguing while the Chinese clean our clocks in the new economy...ukit
- does that 10 billion increase to 30 billion bc chinese subsidities. I saw doc say somethign about china investing 9 billion a month********
- investing 9 billion a month.********
- maybe buffet and bliznutty are smart********
- raf0
@lowimpakt There are no climate control measures. A climate control measure would be this:
Perhaps the Chinese have those, I heard they were fixing the weather for the olmpics.
Politicians, instead of climate control, introduce laws that control people's behaviours on the pretense that those have impact on the climate.
The laws would be global, which is a perfect backdoor to all sorts of control measures.Look at those lightbulbs - they banned harmless and reliable source of light we have been using for a hundred years, forcing us to use mercury-filled ones which not only bring biohazard to your home, but give unhealthy, unnatural strobe light.
Will it save the climate? Hell no. Will it bring billions to a few giant corporations and kill smaller light bulb factories? Hell, yes.
- lowimpakt0
when you say "control", do you really mean regulations?
what do you mean by the back door? there is no secret to the fact that people's lifestyles will require change.
what exactly is the problem with a short term transition to more efficient products and services that cause minimal impact on the environment leading to greater structural change with the emergence of new businesses, sectors, technologies etc?
that is a win win situation.
I have showed you on numerous occasions that the old bulb wasn't harmless, there weren't lots of small lightbulb factories and that hundreds of products are screened off the market every year.
- Yes, regulations. Crippling your freedom to use a perfectly good lightbulb – this is only an example.raf
- The old bulb didn't bring mercury to your home. EU banned mercury thermometers not so long agoraf
- traditional bulbs waste up 95% of energy consumed as heat (rather than light) - is that smart?lowimpakt
- They don't waste it. They emit it as heat. My kettle wastes energy turning 99% of it into heat. Next in the ban line?raf
- Bottom line, I don't believe we should use less energy. Politicians don't either if you look at what they do, not say.raf
- raf0
Look at the politicians supporting "Climate Control", especially the most vocal ones.
I know most of you still believe Obama is a saint, so let's go right to clear cases with corporate ties and hectolitres of blood on their hands.Do you trust Mr. Brown? Do you think he's in your team in this game? Do you believe he is building a better world?
No, really.. do you trust a word from his mouth?One might say he's just trying to win the election. 39% of Britons are not sure people have influence on climate, 7% are sure we don't – that's a risky way to get reelected.
- The world is a complex place...sure everyone loves to beat up on Gordon Brown but that doesn't mean he is wrong on everythingukit
- By the way didn't the Tories replace their logo with a tree?
http://www.escapecra…ukit - Surely they're in on the scam as well - better vote BNP or UKIP (my party);)ukit
- The Tories want your money too, why wouldn't they?raf
- lowimpakt0
raf - climate change isn't about particular politicians or what they do in a personal capacity.
it is about humans. it is about you. it is about me. and it is about the billions of people I don't know and will never meet. It is also about the billions of people not born yet. my children. their children.
The fact is people's lives are already being affected. millions of people in the "developing" world are being further cheated by the direct impacts of climate change. these impacts are affecting people's lives through adverse weather, more severe flooding, desertification, massive disruption to food production and distribution, massive damage to crops causing economic harm aswell as contributing to hunger.
climate refugees are having their lives upturned.
businesses closer to home are suffering because climate change is affecting how they operate, increasing risk, increase insurance costs and making future planning difficult.
this is just the start of the problems of dealing with climate change in its current state.
and you're giving out because someone made you change a lightbulb!!!???
- How many rafalskis does it take to change a lightbulb?ukit
- hasnt the last 2 years of cold temperature offset the last ten of warm temp********
- actually, 11 years of plateau which scientists admit in those emails are embarassed not do know the reason forraf
- Climate change always fucked up peoples lives - for millenia. I don't see one business around suffering because of it.raf
- A lot of businesses suffer and will suffer because of the political measures. I pay Gordon Brown climate tax..raf
- ...on every flight from UK. Has it helped the climate?raf
- calcium0
Remember when cigarette's weren't bad for you.Regardless of if you want to say climate change is cyclical or human caused, you cannot doubt it's existence.
I personally believe we are in a cycle, but that it has been compounded 1000000x by human interference. I am a huge supporter of green initiatives and teaching others about the effects of human events on the earth, but I am not about to argue with a bunch of people who think it doesn't exist at all.
- ********0
i cannot believe this thread is alive
- lowimpakt0
it's the biggest design challenge of the century.
if you can't see that you shouldn't be a designer.
there, I said it.
- Stay away from Ukit, he is a racist who can only repeat what he has been told.********
- Stay away from Ukit, he is a racist who can only repeat what he has been told.
- _niko0
I've got more important things to worry about, like will the habs win the cup on their centenary year?
- lowimpakt0
The US government has declared that greenhouse gases threaten human health.
The move could allow the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to order cuts in emissions without the approval of Congress.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/t…
EPA administrator Lisa Jackson said the agency was now "authorised and obligated to make reasonable efforts" to cut greenhouse gases
- jfletcher0
So, I still don't understand the debate. Oil will run out, we know that, so we need to find other power sources. Anyone who hangs out in LA or Beijing knows driving cars pollutes the air, not sure why cutting back on that would be bad. Trash is piling up at crazy rates and more people are being born every second to produce more trash... seems like cleaning it up would be nice.
Seems like calling it climate change is a red herring to mask some of the basics in debate. It's more about how is right and making the other person wrong. Regardless of who is right or wrong, let's just clean shit up. We're all fighting like 5 year olds instead of saying "hey. garbage and pollution suck, let's figure something out”. We're all spoiled with the luxury of arguing.
- well saidutopian
- "It's more about being right and making the other person wrong". Bad typing :Pjfletcher
- Arguing is easier than making change and having our "God given" rights in the US.jfletcher
- yea but douchebags take your statement and say give me 8 billion for research without results********
- did i see today on the news soemone said breathing co2 is bad... how much for that study********
- its nice to say do soemthign about it, but what can be done. and ethically. i say let it play out, do your best and dotn care********
- this whiny shit is about money. eco friendliness is more like brushing your teeth and not some religious hell********
- its jsut common sense practice. sugar leads to cavitys over-pop leads to problems********
- and thats primarily on bahaivn gin a good manner. i still dont buy the mankind is altering climate change a ton.********
- there are far too many dynamic variables to accurately depict such change and liek god that makes it $$$********
- jfletcher: I'm all for cleaning and tackling pollution. Fighting climate is none of the above.raf