Hackers just killed global warming
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- lowimpakt0
" isn't it interesting that all this scandal just happened shortly before the copenhagen event?.....almost as if some folks wanted to scuttle it. "
yes it is interesting but the "email leak" didn't do anything to alter the scientific view that climate change is happening and that humans are having an impact.
what the leak has done is set a platform for previous opposition against action on climate change (both adaptation and mitigation)
it was telling that the Saudi delegates for COP15 immediately jumped on the email story as a way to prevent engagement - stalling to protect their oil interests - just like they did with Kyoto etc.
- :) pretty much the point i was trying to make, but i think you summed it up better, low...cheersexador1
- ukit0
Georges, all I'm arguing for is to follow the evidence where it leads...and IMO, it says there's a high likelihood GW is a serious threat. I'm not committed to the current understanding of climate change being 100% accurate - that would be stupid.
All I'm saying is, listen to the people who know what they are talking about instead of the ones who are telling you what you want to hear. Throw your ideology away and focus on the facts.
This video, IMO, pours cold water on the premise of your thread - that the hacked e-mails "killed global warming." If that's not the case, then you should be able to refute the points made in the video, one by one.
- ukit0
The trouble is that when you guys present arguments like, that it's a massive ponzi scheme for Al Gore to make money, or that all the scientists have been bought off because they "need to pay their mortgages" like raf keep claiming, it's kind of hard not to respond.
It creates an environment where people who want to be fact-based about this find themselves arguing just as fervently for the other side, just to dispel the silly theories you guys throw up. My POV is that, yes, GW is probably a serious threat, but that we obviously don't know 110% for sure (and never will). All I'm saying is take the science on it's own merits, pro or con.
In the end, there are so many good reasons to stop using oil that this argument is almost beside the point.
- ********0
- ukit0
P.S. Do you really want to be responsible for killing this?
- _niko0
The earth is a spec of dust in the grand scheme of things, do you really think us little ants have a greater effect on this rock than the sun and other forces in the universe?
- When there's 6.8B of us, wielding mass industry? Yes, very much so.detritus
- yes, take a science glassversion3
- ..on the timescale that is pertinent to our immediate focus, of course. In the rand scheme of things? No. Not at all.detritus
- IN RAND'S SCHEME OF THINGS.detritus
- i'll drink to that_niko
- A bunch of ants? No. 6 billion apes throwing massive amounts of pollution into the air? Maybe.ukit
- ants could kill us if they chose, scientists found an actual genetic family of ants on 3 dif continentsversion3
- they can communicate through scent and are great at passing messages.version3
- gjd0
- Gucci0
I blame the internet, readily accessible information. You'd think it would make people smarter, but I think in some ways it's having the opposite effect.
Both sides have a compelling argument and push "facts" to the point that the "truth" (whichever side it's really coming from) is so fuzzy, fence-sitters don't know where to sit. One side or the other obfuscating in support of their argument doesn't really help either, and thus I find it harder to really know who's feeding you the straight goods, no chaser, period.
The older I get, the more i dislike politics and these kinds of conversations.
Everyone knows everything and nothing all at the same time.
- bliznutty0
Maybe we are skeptical b/c we know the crap coming out of the "Climate Change" pushers is complete and utter bullshit.
"What changed in the United States with Hurricane Katrina was a feeling that we have entered a period of consequences."
- Al Gore"All across the world, in every kind of environment and region known to man, increasingly dangerous weather patterns and devastating storms are abruptly putting an end to the long-running debate over whether or not climate change is real. Not only is it real, it's here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon: the man-made natural disaster."
- BARACK OBAMA, speech, Apr. 3, 2006"Today we're seeing that climate change is about more than a few unseasonably mild winters or hot summers. It's about the chain of natural catastrophes and devastating weather patterns that global warming is beginning to set off around the world.. the frequency and intensity of which are breaking records thousands of years old."
- Barack ObamaIf you guys believe this shit you are totally brainwashed.. Hurricane Katrina was a Cat 3 when it hit land (Far less catastrophic then many of the Hurricanes from well over 100 years of historical data)
- ukit0
blitznutty - the funny part is that you don't realize that you are the one who is brainwashed. You want to make the world into some anarchist vs. NWO battle when it's nothing close to that.
Sure, Gore was wrong to state uncategorically that Katrina was caused by climate change. We don't know that for sure and will never know that. But forget Gore and Obama - they are almost completely irrelevant to the debate. By pasting those statements you haven't even begun to get to the actual issue.
- ukit0
Gucci - agree completely. On another site where we were discussing this, someone said it's not the information age, it's the "information you want to believe" age, which sounds about right. If you believe that government is the most evil, oppressive force on Earth and that everything you see on TV is a lie, you are going to have that tape running in your head endlessly, facts be damned. The same thing could be leveled at liberals who blame every problem in the world on corporations and big business.
The bad part is that when you have all these half-baked conspiracies out there, it turns scientists into advocates FOR GW as they try to fight back against public ignorance. Then when a counterargument or unexplained aspect pops up the skeptics jump on it, and the other side is forced to defend a POV as ironclad even as they should also be neutrally examining the pros and cons.
The aspect of this that is hard for me to ignore though, is the huge amount of money that oil companies have thrown into creating doubt around this issue. IMO it's a triumph of PR, maybe the greatest one ever, when you have 90% of scientists saying one thing, and 50% of the public not believing it because of their ideological views.
- Science is a business. Every scientist out there has a family and a mortgage. They don't bite hands that feedraf
- They even used the same PR firms as tobacco companies http://www.ucsusa.or…ukit
- raf, that's your opinion, based on nothingukit
- ukit0
Anyways, I'll just leave you guys with this picture. Have fun driving your Hummer to work you polluting bastards (jk).
- eieio0
This is the thread where ukit talks to himself about baby polar bears.
- bliznutty0
Here is the main reason why you will never convince a Climage-Changer (mainly Ukit) that they are believing fear-mongering propoganda bullshit:
REASON: He first has to be convinced that Hurricanes are part of Mother Nature and have been around longer than 100 years..
Geez no wonder... what are we dealing with here?
- pr20
yes we do. one is closely related to another! By polluting we affect the planet, and one of the affected areas is the climate. How can you not see the obvious???
- It's called the power of advertising http://www.ucsusa.or…ukit
- version30
even if you sit around and fart all day, you're still detrimental to the environment... you're no fucking tree giving back, you're a cyst, a plague, a disease upon this planet's surface
- directed toward pr2 ftrversion3
- http://www.threadbom…ukit
- yes, thatversion3
- raf0
Thing is, pollution is something new and a real concern. Climate change is a natural phenomenon, our influence over which being debatable and far from proven.
We don't have a global meeting in Copenhagen on pollution though.
- put pollution and climate change together and you just figured all this outeieio
- pr20
Some of you don't seem to pay attention. I'm blown away how much trash comes out of my household each week. I could drown in it in a matter of just a few months. And i'm one of 6 BILLION people! To say that all that crap JUST ONE PERSON generates (and i don't consume too much, and i don't drive etc) has no impact then...????????
