BNP on Question Time
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- gjd0
In that programme after Question Time..
Alan Davies made clearer, more direct points in 90 secs than the whole QT panel did in 60 mins. No '-isms', no '-cations', no abstractions, no party squabbles playing into Griffins hands. They should've let him speak for 45 mins and hang himself with his own words instead of throwing insults that he can laugh off, missed opportunity
- Projectile0
It definitely did more damage than good. That was always going to be the case but still there are idiots protesting outside the BBC. Why? It's quite obvious that the few that did vote for him knew nothing about what he really stands for, and maybe just agree on the border control points or something like that. Now that he's been exposed for what he is, maybe these idiots won't vote for the twat
- Jimbo820
Watched it. Think there is a danger that the people who voted for him could have viewed the show as a group attack on him. Everyone was lining up to have a pop at him as opposed to questioning / highlighting his views and exposing him that way.
Think a 30 minute interview one on one with someone like Paxman would have done a better job.
- FallowDeer0
People in areas such as Blackburn and Burnley (sorry if anyone is from there I really am lol!) do know what they are doing when the vote for him.
I was pretty disapointed that there wasnt any real good questions, the ones to really catch him out and make a fool of himself, as half the time it was just the normal witch hunt questions
- Orbit0
I think if anything it will give the main political parties a kick up the arse to drop this crazy notion that immigration concerns are married to racism, and that the vast majority of people in this democracy want something done about our open borders.
Hopefully the show has crystalised for them that the only way they can stop disillusioned people float-voting for the BNP is to have some clear and compelling policies to address this issue for the majority.
I'm not saying I agree that immigration needs to be shut down, but I am saying that in a democracy, the majority rules and that's a big issue for the majority, and therefore why the are voting for BNP.
I'm not sure we do need do tackle immigration so much as we need to make the process rigorous, like Australia's or the US, and we need to communicate more clearly what's going on annually with our immigratees in order to alleviate the "monster under the bed" syndrome that spooks a large percentage of the population.
The really complicated one though is the fear of Islam, and I think that's the monster under the bed that will probably remain the BNP's greatest political advantage over the other parties. They can stir up fear with that in ways that the main parties can't address at all without a hardline re-assertion of Christian values enforced by by British law.
- The fearful say "Our population is growing like crazy', but the world's population is doing that...Orbit
- We can't expect to remain exclusively low population like some kind of Mark Warner holiday resort.Orbit
- Not without becoming isolated from the realities of the world North Korea, or imposing birth limits like China.Orbit
- calculator0
It turned into playground name-calling last night, I turned off after 15 mins.
- kezza_20
As someone who grew up in Blackburn and now lives in Ealing in London, one of the most diverse places in the country, I guess I have 3 points:
1. One is that anyone who votes BNP probably doesn't watch question time. Most of the audience of QT wouldn't be people he would naturally appeal to I would of thought. So damage is all relative. I have people in my extended family who voted BNP, and they thought he came across well.
2. If that show had been put on in Blackburn, Leeds, Burnley, Preston, Bradford, there would of been a completely different feel to the show. Doesnt get much more diverse than west London.
3. The last point is really to echo orbit above me. Whether I like it or not or people who dont like Griffin like it or not. The places I grew up have changed massively. I went so school in Blackburn in the early 80's and it was 95% white working/middle class. Now its 50:50 Asian to White. My parents can genuinely remember the first black person who moved to Preston, a city for fucksake. Until the major parties recognize that huge parts of the UK are changing and people are fucked off, the BNP (which is an odious organisation) will always do well where I grew up.
I read an article in Time magasine about Detroit in the USA, about how there is white flight going on and its destroying the place. I seriously think that is happening all over the northwest and yorkshire. Almost no one I grew up with lives in the towns anymore, they've all fucked off to white only villages.
The village I grew up in is still regarded as one of Britains best, whatever that means and 10 years ago someone opened a curry house and it got fire bombed 3 times... This is a village where everyone is a teacher or a professional.
Theres a real issue out there and until a mainstream party confronts it the BNP will just grow and grow.
- +1Orbit
- Some good pointsFallowDeer
- firebombing a curry house? fucking idiots curry is awesome. your town sounds shitBIGGESTDOGINTHEWORLD
- village, and you have a pointkezza_2
- well said.forbes
- what the fuck do the eat... bland shit?SlashPeckham
- Orbit0
"One is that anyone who votes BNP probably doesn't watch question time."
I reckon a lot of them would have done though, purely because it will have been trumpeted as a great leap forward for their resistance movement, but I think you are right anyway in the sense that anyone watching Question Time for the first time, purely to see the debate, will only have concluded that that the show was merely a bunch of lefty do-gooder intellectuals trying to undermine their views and fears, and embarrass them. They will hold that lefty do-gooder faction responsible for the growing mess they perceive, so those that did watch will possibly have been galvanised by the experience and their loyalty to the BNP will have been strengthened.
- lowimpakt0
would anyone here be able to physically shut the door on someone looking for help?
I know we are comfortable with a faceless bureaucracy do the dirty work for us but could we do it ourselves?
I recently expereinced an immigration raid on a restaurant in my neighbourhood. It was late at night and the cops and immigration people stormed the restaurant and pulled the family from upstairs (including women and children) through the restaurant full of customers. It was chaotic and they were being pulled out into a police van.
it was shocking, dehumanising, and insanely embarrassing for the family/staff and it felt like the nazi's were in control. i wanted to challenge them but was blocked from doing so by a row of cops
The way I see is that the actualy facts/statistics on the positive/negative impacts of immigration are contested but in many cases the economic impacts have more to do with incoherent policies and poor planning rather than immigrants themselves.
And by contested I mean the figure coming from seperate arms of the government are different
on the one hand positive - http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/doc…
and on the other hand neutral/negative - http://www.publications.parliame…
- kezza_20
Just had a look at some stats from 2001, which is woefully out of date but... Gives you an idea as to why this shit is happening.
Blackburn:
According to the UK Government's 2001 census, Blackburn, defined as an urban area, had a population of 105,085 and a population density of 11,114/sq mi (4,291 /km2).[1] According to further statistics from the same census, this time defining Blackburn as a Westminster parliamentary constituency, the town was 69.22% White British (national average for England 89.99%) with significant Indian (14.31%) and Pakistani (11.45%) ethnic minorities.[63]
12.33% of the population was born outside the European Union.[64] In terms of religion, 57.53% of residents were Christian (average for England 71.74%), 25.74% Muslim (average for England 3.1%) and 15.98% no religion or not stated.[65]
With regard to the economic activity of those aged 16–74, the 2001 Census indicates that 33.93% were full-time employees (average for England 40.81%), 11.72% were part-time employees, 5.97% were self-employed (average for England 8.32%), and 4.5% were unemployed (average for England 3.35%).
- kezza_20
lowimpakt, I understand your experience. being the son of 2 irish immigrants I can hardly speak, but when you have 5 million on benefits and 3 million unemployed, at what point do we say we don't need anyone else just yet???
I dont know the answer by the way
- lowimpakt0
i don't have the answer either but the amount of people on benefits and unemployed will always go up and down and I would caution againt bringing in discriminatory and retrograde policies that target people because of wider macro-economic problems.
i.e. I don't think we can treat immigration/migration like a tap.
I think that "people" display similar characteristics to market forces. For example, Ireland (my home) experienced massive immigration from Poland and places like that over the last 10 years as the economy boomed. The inflow of immigrants is reducing now that the economy is in the shit.
The problem there is that the messed up economy wasn't caused by immigrants (in fact they contributed to the boom) and now the problem is that as Ireland tries to rebuild the economy the very people it will depend on (hard working people) are heading back home and shifting the sands of economic development.
does that make any sense?
- KarlFreeman0
Some of the points here is exactly why I'm getting the hell out of Britain, emigrating to greener pastures without all this bull. How BNP got enough floating votes to put them in a situation where the BBC deemed it necessary to air there policies is completely down to the underdog's of Britain not feeling like the government is doing enough about the causes which BNP is riding to get votes such as too much immigration and change.
Until the government actually do something about clearly a lot of peoples concern of the immigration, BNP will gain more votes even if its fucking crazy.
- Btw, I have no issue with immigration becuase that would be very ironic of me ;)KarlFreeman
- kezza_20
@Vespa
I dont think there is a direct link, but when you have 8 million people not working, then how can the mainstream parties say we need immigration to fill jobs... Thats why the BNP do well, is they can say to the unemployed..."look at what the governments doing, the're giving your job to that Indian guy"...
For the first time in my lifetime, when I went home last week there are groups of lads not working. I mean normally its the margins that dont work in a down turn, but now its like 18-25 year old lads. That more than anything scares the fuck out of me.
Makes me so angry when last night someone said that the person from Africa is more willing to empty a bin that and english person. Seriously go to Preston and say that.
I'm lucky to earn a good wage these days, and pay a lot of tax. But when you look at the figures it makes your eyes water. Roughly every person working pays for 2 people that dont/cant/retired/to young. That seems unsustainable to me...
I actually sound like Jan Moir...
These are thoughts rather than beliefs so dont shout at me too much
- BIGGESTDOGINTHEWORLD0
_
"anyone who votes BNP probably doesn't watch question time."Its not about changing the mind of the FUCKING MORONS who vote BNP, and they are morons every last fucking one of them (yes if your middle england parents voted for them then your parents are fucking morons).
Its about getting the people who know better to get to the fucking voting office to outweigh these morons. So many people who know the BNP are wrong just can't be bothered to get to the voting office.- good rant. Just think people who call people who vote for the BNP morons are missing the point...kezza_2
- KarlFreeman0
@kezza_2
As someone who is 18-25 seeing my peers not working terrifies me even more. I have been fortunate to of had a good upbringing with a core value of working hard being enforced very young but I couldn't agree more with you when about the tax's. I'm paying at the moment for my peers to lounge around on benefits. Its mental, I know your feeling about someone from different backgrounds being more willing to work than an English person but there is an underlying feeling that young Britain, is benefits a Britain.
- lowimpakt0
there is a need for an educational and social catch up on the realities of the sectors that are driving the UK economy - e.g. financial services, creative industries etc.
people need to be put back at the centre of politics.
there is a need for new indicators for the measurement of wealth and value in the economy. GDP is a bad indicator and has led to many of the problems the UK faces.
there is a need to break down the targets and performance related systems for the delivery of public services. This is a challeneg for government, the service delivery boodies and importantly the users of services.
there needs to be a new dialogue on quality and effectiveness.
- KarlFreeman0
@BIGGESTDOGINTHEWORLD I'm going to raise my hand as someone who didn't vote which I'm sure will make your blood boil, my reasoning. Not because I couldn't be arsed more to do with that I didn't trust any of the parties to vote for. I've completely lost any hope with the government but when its time to vote, trust me. I'l be voting for something that is'nt BNP( even if I don't trust any of the crooks Il be voting for )
- maybe the uprise of the BNP will encourage people to make a decision and vote. it's important.Ianbolton
- Ianbolton0
lowimpakt - i agree we can't turn immigration on and off like a tap, and I also don't really know the answer. The introduction of the points system, used pretty successfully in Australia, means they can raise and lower points as and when necessary, and in some way controlling the influx of immigrants. I'm not sure we can compare a system that works well in Australia though, looking at the size of their country to the size of ours. We need tougher measures. It's not about drawing the bridge and saying 'sorry we're closed'.
Tighter measures to ensure we know who's coming in and where they are is the only way possible. Surely if they're claiming benefits too we can decide whether they deserve them, and whether they deserve to be here.When i look at british yob culture, skin headed hooded louts drinking special brew on the street corners, it worries me. The BNP almost encourage this behaviour by not encouraging a creative forward thinking culture. Without the arts, science and proper education we can safely say this extremely diverse country will be surely screwed.
- Australia may be physically big but the reason it has a small population is due to limited resources like water.vespa
- agreed, but the amount of people i met there working illegally, cash in hand, was unbelievable.Ianbolton
- btw I worked cash in hand in Sydney for 18 months and didnt pay tax. Some fucking systemkezza_2
- i was the same, farm work for 2 months, design work in melbourne and perth for 6 month. Cash in hand.Ianbolton