what a prick.
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- akrokdesign
"Send your resume, portfolio and salary requirements. You will not be considered without them. BFA preferred. No amateurs or self-taught graphic designers and no calls, please."
i feel like calling. lol.
- PonyBoy0
i thought there was a thread in my honor... nevermind
- Amicus0
what's the number?
- _me_0
Jim.
Sr. Web Designer and partner of Entire Internet.
190k + Company Benefits.
- akrokdesign0
^ you should set the bar a bit higher, don't lower your self like that.
- Amicus0
I've lost count of the number of times I have had discussions with designers who have degrees but no knowledge of typography etc.
It's so hard to judge, but I would say my year long 'apprenticeship' in the industry, thousands of hours study and 13 years experience should more than make up for the lack of a piece of paper.
Unfortunately that lack of paper keeps me out of the running for about 85% of jobs. Shouldn't your experience and folio count for more than a degree???
- does in my book.ninjasavant
- in industries like design, sure. in my opinion it's better to have both. school does teach you some things you wouldn't think ofjuhls
- yepPonyBoy
- portdolio: muy importante
design education: not so much
contacts you get at the uni: muy muy importantejimbojones - portfolio and client experience is x1000000000000 times more important than a degree.section_014
- I have never been asked for a degree in 15 years.CyBrain
- MrDinky0
Maybe they had too many bad portfolios to content with. Its always surprising how many people say they are designer but well they are not (hence I cant call my self one)
- yeah but if they went to school or not, make's no difference. i seen a ton of people with their BFA, still SUCKakrokdesign
- jimbojones0
Let your work speak for yourself. If they don't even open it because you didn't study, it's their loss, fuck them.
- dMullins0
I would very quickly trade my piece of paper back in and get my ~$30k back and spend it on something worthwhile.
- dMullins0
Also, it could just be that what they mean instead of not being self-taught is to at least how on the job training, so to speak.
Essentially, experience.
The "no amateurs" speaks to that, I think. If they were up-tight and stodgy, then they would have phrased that differently. Maybe I'm just stoned and completely mis-reading/typing too much.
- tparsons0
Once I had a lady send me t-shirts with her freehand puffy paint designs on them when she was applying for a graphic design job. My six year old daughter has already made better designs than the ones on those t-shirts.
I do believe a real portfolio of real work clearly defining how you were involved in each piece, reigns supreme over anything else.
- Amicus0
Juhls, you wrote "school does teach you some things you wouldn't think of"
What would you put in that category???
- let's say, in the dorms? lol.akrokdesign
- hahajuhls
- teaches the ability to stick it out for 4 years and a commitment to finishing.lambsy
- Amicus0
Oh... and sorry for hijacking the thread...
- ukit0
All a degree does is establish the fact that you've been brainwashed not to think outside of the bounds of mainstream thought, usually put in place to prop up the elite at the expense of the masses.
F*ck an education.
- juhls0
Amicus, it's hard to explain.
Just as there are things you wouldn't learn in school and you have to learn outside of it, there are things you wouldn't even think of before taking a course.
I learned web design on my own for years (since the age of 12, when I read a book about it), but in order to do things properly and comply with standards, school helped me tremendously. I didn't realize I wasn't following certain rules and I had to re-wire my brain for specific coding. Self-education can work, but how many people really spend all that time learning the proper way rather than improvising? It's fine to improvise, as that's what will end up setting you apart from other designers, but, in my opinion, it's best to learn the fundamentals first before you diverge from them. That way you have more appreciation for the history and details behind what you do.
Then again, I'm the type of person who works better when someone is kicking my ass and motivating me to learn rather than spending hours on the computer and learning on my own. I'm distracted too easily.
For industries like design, I would agree that a portfolio is more important. But, again, I personally would like to see a good portfolio AND some kind of education. It can reveal that a person has had the experience of following rules and basic teamwork in an educational environment, to say the least. And hey, it can help during a recession when you may need to work in another industry for a while.
I agree that you shouldn't be required to have a degree when getting hired in an area of design, but it should be considered a benefit if your portfolio is decent enough.
- Same exact thing can be said about the opposite side, how many people you know with a bachelors that dont even work in design industry?Meeklo
- in the design industry?
Its about dedicationMeeklo - Most of the people I know do have degrees. And yes, I know you could say it about the other side.juhls
- There just seems to be a lot of anger in this thread. And that's too bad. Society values an education.juhls
- I'm just speaking realistically; to have a better chance in various industries.juhls
- Keep in mind that I earn more money at my place of work right now because I have a degree. Even though I design.juhls
- airey0
some designers with degrees are great. some designers with degrees are shit. some designers without degrees are great. some designers without degrees are shit.
- Meeklo0
I saw that post on craigslist!
and I know what studio is from, they have some good clients, but their work is subpar, at least what they show on their site, and on my honest opinion.. I think they could use all the help they can get!
Maybe is that with that kind of talk, you immediately expect their work to be really good...
- airey0
“All generalizations are false, including this one.”
Mark Twain
- monkeyshine0
What's so bad about this? Having been on the hiring end I feel their pain a little. Have you ever had to weed through design resumes for a position? It is absurd how many "self-taught" designers with no life experience apply. And what qualifies for "self-taught" is ...well, creative.
If they were being really rigid they would say something like BFA REQUIRED from a top design school or some such...I've seen that too.
- Yeah, in reality they are entitled to ask for whatever they want, maybe they are trying to raise the bar, so they can produce better workMeeklo