joshua davis bashing by CR
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- fiesta0
Few years ago Davis deserved some attention because it was quite interesting, years on and his work all still looks the fucking same.
Even in the realm of generative graphics there are far more talented people deserving of attention because their work actually evolves beyond a random vector jizz stain.e.g Flight404, much more talented than Davis and the work actually changes from client to client and he doesn't go round calling himself an artist or any of that crap.
I mean look at that JD vs BMW video, where hes acting like a massive wanker and saying how inspired he was by the car... what comes out of it? a bunch of soul less generative vector crap that could have appeared at any point in the past 7 years of his portfolio for any client, it has no individually defining feature that sticks it to that client other than the shape of a wheel arch
- neue75_bold0
I'd tend to side with CR a little bit here, regardless of his background and accomplishments, a man can't be measured solely by what has has done... this type of commentary is very relevant and these are the kinds of criticisms that I do like about Creative Review, vs a jock-riding, viewpointless publication like Grafik.. Why can't we question a mans motives, behavior and attitude? And the larger questions that arise from this being, what does this type of work actually say about what we value in our profession, is this really so important? Is Josh any different than any other opportunistic celebrity happy to make their next endorsement?
When I sift through a site like Be ha nce I feel flat, I feel that our generation is so far removed from the notion that commercial graphic design should actually being about communication.. It's so commodified now to just be a visual product, it doesn't need to mean anything, it just needs to be and that's ok... And sometimes the process itself supersedes the result, which is a bit of arty wankery if you ask me...
Our industry has clearly broadened itself so that there are so many more opportunities for these visual decorators, illustrators and photoshop artists to make a go of things on their own terms. But being a bit of an old traditional graphic purist, I too get sick of seeing certain visual styles and trends become so popular with the mainstream.. It's hard not to point the fingers sometimes at those who are seen as leading the pack and becoming the 'poster child' for these attitudes...
- good postBluejam
- agreed.janne76
- on the other hand, one may question, isn't it the work of marketeers?janne76
- what is the work of marketeers?neue75_bold
- Well you know, inevitably a man in any profession at some point ceases being inspired and runs out of inspirationKhurram
- because he is no longer inspired.Khurram
- And at that point, the man must re-invent himself. Like become a cage fighter or somethingKhurram
- Loved this perspectivefabricio2k
- giving designers a go to inspire the market of ringtones and poker sites.janne76
- as in, a lot of agencies force designers to design following a "trend".janne76
- Good post.Horp
- word.pascii
- well put, neue.Corvo2
- well saidarthur
- I'm well back here janne, but I'd say the decoration black hole is entirely the fault of designerskelpie
- dyspl0
^^not valid to me.
what about pollock's dripping then? kandinsky abstracts? mondrian?
yves klein works? leger?- mondrian is totally out of place in your post.digdre
- Yeah but all of them evolved and changed their style throughout their lives not kept doing the same finkKhurram
- but then they are artists and not designers. Like Josh who must flog the same horse cos thats what they wantKhurram
- Andy Warhol, there's one who got stuck on repeat doing the same crap, he shoulda given up long time agoKhurram
- but then he rode the edge between graphic design and art, and was astutely commercial, he was almost taking the pissKhurram
- taking the piss. Josh should take the piss instead of get all uppity talking about his love for the game.Khurram
- IMO of course.Khurram
- clearly.janne76
- your opinion.janne76
- mondrian - about the "everyo,e could do it", so it's not out of place.dyspl
- Poochie0
Did Joshua Davis compare himself to Picasso in his reply? Twice?
Still one of my flash heroes though.
- yeah that guy knows his code. I give him that :Pmodernstyle
- Picasso?Anders
- ya, picasso is a wanker tooMilan
- *wasMilan
- thebottlerocket0
Thought this last comment was interesting:
"It is no wonder people think designers are wankers, if anyone outside the 'industry' saw this exercise in futility, this attempt at 'debate' then they'd be justified in thinking its all a lot of hot air and not actually much doing."
- benfal990
i just can't read that typo on CR website... what the hell
- Horp0
Thinking on from Neue's post, which opposes my personal view and yet resonated with me, I wonder if we've spent so long arguing about and trying to differentiate between 'web' design and 'traditional' design, and at the same time dabbled in the digitally led merging of 'decoration graphics' with 'information graphics', that we've overlooked a better way to separate two distinct specialisms.
Perhaps its time design and illustration parted ways again, completely, as was always the case before, and this current middle-ground cross-discipline all-rounder hybrid territory should be abandoned.
If design is allowed to be focussed on effective communication, regardless of the platform, it should be free of the frippery to become a clear and distinctive discipline that requires something software can never provide... a natural eye for order, logic, heirarchy and understated/restrained visual effectiveness, and it can call on the services of relevant image makers to add to the communication in more appropriate ways.
The 'illustrator' (for want of a better phrase) would then also be free to practice its craft and to get back to the disciplines that software cannot provide... a natural eye for balance, composition, drama, and an ability to underpin everything with a natural, instinctive ability to translate the mind's eye into a visual. It will not be stretched beyond credibility trying to turn itself into the framework, and will be tempered by the eye of a good designer who decides how and when it is used.
Its this image as design, design as image thing that's all wrong.
- which would mean 'Joshua Davis' would be framed within a design-led context, rather than being the context itself.Horp
- neue75_bold0
What I want to make clear there is that I was just referring to commercial design, there's a world of difference between commercial, and/or personal/academic pursuits..
I'm overall a bit sick with the way agencies and individuals waste other peoples money to fulfill their own desires. I reckon many of these misguided individuals do think they're doing the right thing and fuck, if they don't someone else will.. I was having a chat with a friend a while back and she's telling me about this grand online/experiential project she's been working on, a massive physical setup with all these gizmos that can all be manipulated and controlled via some online interface.. I was mesmerized by the grandeur and the really creative thinking that went into the whole thing, but by the end of her description I was like, "sorry, what was this actually for again?" I don't mean to slag her off at all as I think it was somewhat relevant for the client and project, but it did seem a bit more about them and possibly the chance of winning an award from it..
I'm also not really saying commercial graphic is solely about communication, and even then, style alone is some sort of communication right? Using generative art by Josh davis on the cover of your magazine is communicating something loud and clear — "if you think this is cool, wait until you see what's inside"
I have no problems with what Josh is/was and will do, but for me, it is actually art.. I like the fact that it involves new techniques and he's looking for new ways to create self-indulgent work [sold for a price] good on ya, nothing wrong with being enterprising..
It's a very blurry line for me personally, but these types of projects, and ones by the likes of yugop, et al are all kinda cool for for the sake of doing something that hasn't been done. But at the end of the day it's like, so what? What has this done for us? Are we as people better for it, have our lives been enriched?
Where I do see beneficial non-commercial graphic design is much more on the infographical side of things, where designers and creatives are looking at things like systems, networks and patterns, ultimately these types of projects will help us better understand each other and how the world around us actually works [or doesn't]
fuck me, I'm not sure any of that made a lick of sense, but whatever, I've got some terribly boring, marketeer-led campaign to work on...
- < exercise in futilityneue75_bold
- I totally agree with you!!Mau
- Rand0
link?
- Rand0
I'll leave the moral and esthetic judgements to others and just say that autonomously generated, resellable designer fetish items are the way to go if you want to make money
- Its the money that really gets all your goats, isn't it.Horp
- let me know if I should keep writing..neue75_bold
- Pity for the the fools who have the cash to spare on frippery, kudos to the man who sells it.Horp
- I've been looking for something like this for yearsRand
- LOL Buy two, one for the sitting room one for the study.Horp
- tom ford approvesjanne76
- francoisfido0
*yawn
- albeit good effort, lasses.francoisfido
- Francois you should write for the Creative Review.Horp
- pisstake?francoisfido
- so elaborate. i really got some insight now. thx.janne76
- Yes, it was a pisstake.Horp
- thanks for the meaningful contributionJosev
- pascii0
separate the man from the work. and realize, that some things are average and some outstanding. stop having idols. stop growing egos. be inspired by your surrounding world
- Anders0
Joshua Davis... just a band
- chossy0
I have not seen anything other than weird melty clocks and dreams by dali, fucking one trick pony hack. He should have moved on like a motherfucker instead of conning all those people into liking something which he found joy in doing what a prick.
- Etype0
ya isn't he just another spokesman? I think he has very little to do with most of the new stuff
