there is a god
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- Corvo20
I don't believe in God, but I respect people's religiosity. Not everybody is learned in astrophysics. I for one am not.
Also religion is not about discovering an all-powerful entity in the outskirts of space - it's about accepting your bodily condition and your own extinction.
- designbot0
@ zarkonite
My point was not to debate what a theory is...but it was to show when pressed with difficult questions, the ideas put forth by science require faith to believe in just like any religion does. If someone who looks to science for all the answers is going to point at Christianity and say it is a bunch of fairy tales, they must have absolute truth to KNOW this.....but as we see they (the scientific community) can not offer up any reasonable alternative. Instead they take huge leaps of faith to try and concoct theories that have no evidence to support them.
- "no evidence to support them" = not a theory.zarkonite
- I guess to you it's a leap but if you'd just read the papers you'd see the observations behind them.zarkonite
- but sorry for going on, I really don't care about the origin of the universe.zarkonite
- designbot, you accomplish nothing but a perversion of the word faith.BRNK
- ********0
love fuckers!
- ukit0
While many people are still religious (and more power to them), it's clear that atheism is on the rise and religion declining.
I think it's safe to say there are probably less people that believe in God than at any point in human history.
- designbot0
Honestly I love these discussions, but at the end of the day I think nothing is more powerful than hearing someones personal testimony. When man (or women) even gets a glimpse of the almighty, it can dramatically change their lives forever. It literally transcends all human understanding. One small glimpse of God and a person can cling to that for their entire lives. I sometimes wonder why God is seemingly so elusive, but I really think anyone who seeks him will find him. It really can't be explained, but afterall we are talking about God. If you ever meet someone who has been radically transformed, it's pretty hard to just brush it off as "rubbish".
- I'd really rather seek enlightenment and knowledge and stuff.ribit
- ********0
i think it's safe to say that all people are still believers, they just don´t call it god.
some atheists worship ego. some humanism. some worship the dollar. but it´s exactly the same thing, just painted no-god. they also point their fingers the same as some religous nuts do.
- Well said.designbot
- ...like they know anything********
- somehow the idea that someone worshiping the dollar is the exact same thing doesn't work for me********
- god=core-value(s) of the personal belief-system, primary focus of pursuit, master you submit yourself to********
- you haven´t met a materialist?********
- Everyone, including religious people, have interests and beliefs. It's not the same thing,ukit
- TheBIueOne0
Yet it always seems to come down to "god" meaning a specific interpretation of a particular thread of a wider swath of middle eastern monotheism, doesn't it..anything else isn't really considered "religion" or "God"...and then you argue form that point of view against the lineage of people who rebelled from within it, modern science being a pretty distinct formulation based originally around investigations into this particular "God's plan" and "Blueprint" (see Bacon, Newton,Copernicus, et al. They weren't discovering science, they were hunting for the mind of God).
- you have a point there.Corvo2
- The point is that science was founded in skeptical inquiry, not blind acceptance. THE POINT.BRNK
- It was founded in inquiry fueled by faith if you want to be honest about it.TheBIueOne
- Corvo20
Well I think the idea of God is, in fact, the idea of us all. Our humanity. Our feelings.
Say the world is just a bunch of molecules - atoms clashing together against each other (I believe in this stuff).
But where does that leave us? What for is that? Even if the universe is random and anything can happen and there's no purpose, why this? Why do we bother? Why do we have a brain and think?
I think the most simplest questions are the most intriguing - and I don't necessarily need a God for this. Truth is there's no answer. We just simply don't know and I'm going to have a drink now.
- ukit0
No, I (humbly) disagree gung_hoek.
"Worshipping" humanism, is really not the same thing. For one thing, I can't think of a single person who spends enough time on these things to be considered worship.
But even if they did, there's a big difference in my mind between devoting your life to a philosophy, and believing in metaphysical events and life after death. It seems wrong to pretend that they are one and the same. You are essentially saying that it doesn't matter what's real and what isn't.
- You actually believe people believe in life after death? So many believers, and so little descriptions, maps, plans...Corvo2
- .. of what that world would be.Corvo2
- Huh? Sure, plenty of people do, just ask some of the ones on this site.ukit
- They "say" they do. But do they really picture it?Corvo2
- I mean, if it isn't exactly the same you up there why bother with the you now?Corvo2
- I think what corvo2 means is that it's easy to say you do but act like you do hardly seen these days.zarkonite
- fuck my english =)zarkonite
- Autokern0
There is a god, and he is reading this messageboard.
And you all are fucking going to hell!- Not all of us. I have a return ticket.Corvo2
- Being a fool, I'm allowed between many worlds. I should change my nickname to Grey.Corvo2
- I have a fine bottle of unopened single malt scotch ready for just such an occasion...TheBlueOne
- Corvo20
TheBlueOne made a very clever remark.
There are more people in China and India than in all the West and Middle East put together. Why is this discussion (that involves all humanity) mostly strictly confined to Deities or Ideas from that particular tract of land between the Nile and the Euphrates?
- cuz we're mostly from there maybe? and it's not like there are buddhist missionaries out to get you like christians =)zarkonite
- Ah. Economics ;)Corvo2
- But we were pagans before Christendom around here. The church only took hold of our old festivities.Corvo2
- (I would burn 500 years ago. Or less.)Corvo2
- i light myself on fire everyday. it's the only way to live.TheBlueOne
- you gotta watch out for those of us who come bearing clever remarks.TheBlueOne
- ********0
what i say is that the human experience is just the same, whether you believe that the earth is 5000years old, or that deep v-necks are for douchebags. there are deep rooted, intercultural, universal values, like worship of one´s genitals (primary), wellbeing of your offspring and belonging somewhere, feeling home, maybe respect. the love thing. this is what god is, the common spirit. your god, their god, our god. it´s a thing everybody can and does subscribe to. well established for 10,000 years. a common spirit.
the rest doesn´t matter, that´s exactly what i´m saying, as long as everybody keeps cool and doesn´t put his brother/sister down, casting stones and that, why should you care if they don´t want to follow darwin? there´s a universal truth, one is enough, the rest is up for interpretation. tomato tomatoe. better to just leave it with that instead of arguing. theoretical physics, shaman culture, tantra, islam, whatever, all very cool stuff. pick your poison. you dig electronic music or hiphop, i can´t stand it, but i can relate to what you get out of it. fundamentalists that fuck things up for everybody else, as well as nimrods are legion on both sides. their actions are debatable. but god´s got nothing to do with it, my point being. he´s real. :D
- @ the ukit********
- Some cultures produce better welfare than others. Your theory is great but it doesn't work. Religion is also politics.Corvo2
- So basically, none of this is worth arguing over, let's all chill out and get along?ukit
- Where do you come up with these insane ideas?ukit
- argue about what you want, but this thread ("there´s no god") is just inconsiderate. get it now?********
- like your basic thesis is off. "show me proof". i realize this was a joke, but still, one-dimensional.********
- i´d also try to point out that you point your finger at dogmatists while engaging in the same game.********
- have you even read the last part of my beautifully crafted post?********
- in short: you can wipe your ass with both bible or nature magazine, but not with god.********
- I like the idea of a "common spirit". Maybe we should try to make that work and see how it... evolves.Corvo2
- but deep v neck shirts ARE for douchebags...TheBlueOne
- whatever, man. whatever.ukit
- and he was like whatever, man. whatever.********
- @ the ukit
- ********0
mass delusion
- erikjonsson0
why did you feel you had to make a post about this here?
having doubts?- Hey, the thread was titled "there IS a God." And I didn't even comment for the first several pages.ukit
- lackofcolor0
“My young son asked me what happens after we die. I told him we get buried under a bunch of dirt and worms eat our bodies. I guess I should have told him the truth - that most of us go to Hell and burn eternally - but I didn't want to upset him.” - jack handy
- TheBlueOne0
When it comes to religion i tend to favor crazy zen monks, martyred catholic saints, ancient pre-socratic greeks, old boxers and the occasional drunken sailor with odd yens for poetry. You tend to get a bit more truth, insight and grit from them than the usual run of the mill preacher, priest, mystic, imam or bishop.
- ..and in the end it always seems to be about paying debts of some kind to someone.TheBlueOne
- BRNK0
You guys can have a big ole' moderate party and water your religious dogmas down as much as you like, but the fact remains: Your "holy book" calls for the murder of people for a plethora or reasons. Your wife not a virgin on your wedding night? Stone her to death. Your little brother decides he's a buddhist? Strike him a deadly blow on the spot. Doubt god? Fuck you, you're dead.
While you may not hold these opinions, as long as you maintain a moderate position and insist that everyone has the right to believe what they want, you are providing intellectual cover for someone who does.
The bible is a terrible moral compass. The biblical god is murderous, jealous and vengeful. The koran explicitly and repeated endorses martyrdom. The islamic god is also murderous and vengeful.
I'm sure you'll disagree with me and cherry pick some quotes from the new testament to spit back at me. Just remember, I'm not the one framing my world view on a book written in the Bronze Age, when people thought the earth was flat and that letting blood out of your head was a good cure for headaches.
Atheism IS NOT a dogma in itself. It has no required beliefs as a barrier to entry, it is simply the promotion of skeptical thought.
- But athiesm does require a lack of belief in god, doesn't it? I mean if you "believe in god" than you can't be an athiest..TheBIueOne
- ..so technically, that IS a barrier to entry. Just saying.TheBIueOne
- ..and I've been the biggest athiest\agnostic on here in these threads for six years now..TheBIueOne
- Well said TBO. To claim atheism requires no beliefs is a self defeating statement. BRNK you seem to be missing the clear distinction between the old and new testament.designbot
- distinction between the old and new testament (New Covenant vs. the Old Covenant) With all do respect most animosity towards the Bible or Christianity stems from lack of understanding.designbot
- Bible or Christianity stems from lack of understanding. The Bible, specifically, always has to be interpreted in context of the entire book.designbot
- the entire book.designbot
- In regards to your "cherry picking" comment, this is precisely what you have done with the old testament. You've paraphrased a few vs. and not given any context around them.designbot
- paraphrased a few verses and not given any context around them.designbot
- GeorgesII0
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."
- Umberto Eco -