Designing with no content
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- acs8
When designing a website do you think it's best to have all the content first, or a vague wireframe of possible content in lorem ipsum?
- Moo0
i tend to use lorem ipsum but you will need some idea what the client wants
- Stugoo0
you need to know wahat the lcleint wants on thier site, if they have something exisitng then i tend to re-produce that content if i dont have a wireframe or content.
otherwise I look at what other companies are doing try to elaborae and use lorem ipsum
- attentionspan0
Nobody reads on the intarnet, so put lots of pretty pictures and some animations
- VectorMasked0
I always want all the content. You can't pull off great sites without knowing the actual widths and heights of text boxes, graphics, headers, details, etc...
I actually shoot clients that want me to work with no content even after Insist on it.
- +1, if no content just raize the mfkin prize yoattentionspan
- 'Shoot clients' *notes that down********
- Got like 20 bodies lying around the back of the office. Anybody's welcome to take a few.VectorMasked
- ********0
Don't you think it's perhaps part of your job to be leading content direction?
- Only if it's part of the CONTRACT!
Transit_Broadcast - right... the CONTRACT********
- Only if it's part of the CONTRACT!
- Transit_Broadcast0
acs8,
Listen very closely, and live by my mistakes.
1) Create/buy a questionaire that will pull all the information from the client that you need to COMPLETE the website, or at least 90% of it.
2) Keep the sheet, and customize when needed.
3) Give the client a deadline to submit content.
4) DO NOT SPEND ANY MORE TIME ON THE PROJECT UNTIL THEY HAVE SUBMITTED.
5) Explain to the client that their project will be late if they do not meet the deadline.
6) Start looking for other projects.
The idea is to make sure that your 8 hours a day of freelancing are TOTALLY productive and that you make money each day. Waiting for clients and being 'nice' doesn't do anything for you.
If you practice some of the simple stuff above, you will save yourself TONS of time and grief. Remember you are in business for yourself.
- ********0
"You can't pull off great sites without knowing the actual widths and heights of text boxes, graphics, headers, details, etc"
what is it you actually do, just wait for instructions on everything and just dump in whatever they give you?
- What do you do sicarius? Complain about everything and offer no solutions. You're a typical wank.Transit_Broadcast
- I'm not here to tell you what to do********
- Spare me.Transit_Broadcast
- neue75_bold0
draft content first... how you gonna build a house with no plans?
- VectorMasked0
I wait on content.
I get talk to them first, I plan stuff with them, we set up deadlines/goals and make sure they understand that the content "DICTATES" the design, direction and effective workflow, not to mention it is necessary when trying to stay on budget and avoid headaches. I also make sure they understand there can be extra cost like copy editing, stock photography, maybe a typeface purchase, etc.... since many assume we all got this big book of images for them to choose from. And fonts, well.. they all think they are free.
The other thing, is that the Content dictates the sitemap and viceversa. They go hand in hand. I make sure they understand we need to cover the sitemap and do it well so we don't fuck up the deadlines and budget and functionality of the site.
I myself like to be in control of things. I am slightly harsh when it gets to my work and tend to be honest and say if something sucks and is silly to even do. I prefer to suggest and insist several times about how something should be done, specially if they want to do weird things with the sections of the site.
So basically, if I don't have the content or something very close to the final thing, I don't even start with brinstorming. It's not worth it and can make me lose valuable time and money.
- kelpie0
oh that'd be lovely. actual content up front and the knowledge that you can design and build with specifics in mind. Hardly ever, if ever, happens in my case certainly - one of the unfortunate downsides of this is that you have to adopt an approach where you design specifically to the fact that you CAN'T know what is going into any content area. This makes you disregard many elements which you know will be murdered and wont work when that variable is introduced. By necessity you end up with quite 'template' looking stuff. Other less obvious things happen, like (in web design certainly), you stop being able to comfortably align things *across* pages to make good use of space and grids in that way, because thing A is likely to be a completely different length from thing B which sits beside it, and this disparity will throw a bunch of other things you've spent ages mocking up right out of whack.
I doubt this applies to more 'campaign' based web stuff, or to some print stuff, as there is a far more pressing need for the graphics to come together in a pre defined space and way that communicates the 'message' more primarily, but in big content driven things I don't see where its realistic to expect all the content up front when that variability will be fundamental as the lifespan of the project goes on.
It kind of forces your hand in a way to design for unknowns, its a good skill to get comfortable with, but often it means subjugating your own desires to produce beautifully crafted, well considered elements, and focusing on design in a structural way, creating frameworks rather than cohesive 'wholes'.
I've actually written so much now I've forgotten what I was saying at the start, but anyway...
- mistermik0
aye i agree.
*didnt bother reading it.
- mistermik0
ends up template city.
- juhls0
I want content first too.
Sometimes they're stubborn and will tell you to work on the wireframes and templates before all of the content is ready. In that case, you can either begin the prototype and hope the content fits (risk of having to re-do the entire thing), or not really start until the content comes in and convince them to give you more time or charge them more.
- calculator0
depends on your remit.
someone who's more strategically minded will try to steer the content for the client.
that's what i do, i see it as part of the job. i'm not just a layout monkey.
- What's a layout monkey?NotByHand
- LAYOUT monkey . what a fucking brilliant term. I shall be using this with my team.
* Get back to work you stupid layout monkey!!Terminal27
- kelpie0
@calculator
neither am I old boy, you'll meet few designers with a more strategic bent than myself.
There are different types of content for different situations though, and in some content up front is at the very least something to aim for, whereas in others its a bit of an irrelevant notion, to be honest
- kelpie0
eg. were you designing a signage system for a city transport network, would you require to know every last piece of content to be rolled out across your ever morphing canvas, or would you design something which would work around that flux, and work with in as many situations with as much variability as possible?
- Groks0
I think it depends on the job at hand, but for the most part I lean towards wanting at least a rough copy of the content.
My job, as I see it, is to deliver a message for the client and if I don't have that message in hand, it's pretty difficult to know how best to deliver it.
That said, I'll always offer ways to improve the content for the web and ways to massage it to work best with the design while keeping their overall goals in mind.
- mistermik0
stroke chin, runs finger through hair.
- olli1010
Tough call but you can get pretty far with mood boards and a style guide.
Before you touch design, don't you do the IA first and let that determine the shape of where the content goes?