US Auto bailout rejected
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- TheBlueOne0
$70 an Hour Myth: "it's a conservative myth concocted by totaling all wages, plus health and benefit costs to current workers and 450,000 retirees and their families -- and then deceptively dividing that huge total payout by the number of current UAW workers, about 140,000 in Detroit."
If you hate Unions, fine. At least be honest about it and don't regurgitate lies to back up our policy ideas. That's how we got into this mess in te first place, by falsely inflating values.
- It is a generalization. But they do make more an hour than non-union.. much of which goes back to the union.ETM
- JIBHUNTNYC0
Yeah,
Merge the companies.
I would buy a Forvolhumlertiac.
- JSK0
I hate the unions. I had too many beers cans in my car door left and enclosed in. And got charged to remove the beer cans. The last time I bought a GM car.
I always thought that NY Times was left to the left.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/1…
"But the cuts did not affect most long-time union members, whose hourly pay and compensation is about $55 an hour. The figure ranges above $70 an hour when the automakers’ costs for health care for retired workers and retirement benefits is factored in."
- ukit0
Jack Nicholson driving a hydrogen car in the 70s...kind of gives you an idea how little progress these guys have made on alternative technologies in the last 30 years
- TheBlueOne0
What is the average hourly pay for an employee of AIG, Citibank, et al. just ot of curiosity - anyone have those figures to compare? Hmmm? And I don't remember any media coverage about asking the bank and financial workers to take a paycut before they got trillions of bucks from the taxpayers so their industry could stay afloat.
- $150/hour + soulsdesignbot
- ...and also their first born.ETM
- It's the souls part that gets ya, don't it :)TheBlueOne
- haha :)designbot
- thumb_screws0
- Haha, screw the man. I'm so sick of seeing stuff like that happen on "private property."dMullins
- ETM0
@TheBlueOne That's a great question. I guess the finance companies do more to scratch the politicians backs than the automakers. That's what it comes down to.
- Well, it is a bit disingenuous of me...it's comparing apples to oranges and I'm aware of it..just making a point though.TheBlueOne
- No, but there is a point to be made there.ETM
- bankiers know how to make money, auto employees cost moneykeiTai
- If that was true they wouldn't have needed a bailout! :)ETM
- I agree, you pose a valid point.dMullins
- JSK0
The difference is that financial system is critical to our viability. Not just US but the world. As banks fail, there is no alternative source to deal with. Since all banks do is lend money to one another.
The wages are not even comparison. Its like saying complaining that shoes sales man makes less money then a designer. Different job and different educational value.
Auto makers, while they share plants for parts, there are other players in the game to take over the slacks. The productivity is not ideal in union base. The cost is higher and get crap cars.
- Yes, and the bank bailout has failed. Period. Credit did not and is not bout to loosen up.TheBlueOne
- hiatus0
i really dont understand how they dont have the money. the company has been making so much $$$ of the sale of the cars. There not a start up Co. they made there money in millions, a large company should have to worry about rainy days or years in this case. they fucked themselves by giving the insider exes to big a bonus. betwn a few of them they got a billion or 2. they just should get checks for a couple years. live off the saving they have. there personally not worried, the top executive could not work till the economy gets better and find a place 2,3 -5-8 years.
fuck them, learn how to run your shit. game on bitch!
sorry for the typos, ranting!
- JSK0
You know, I would think that GOP would jump to help the auto since they run on oil. More cars, more oil.
- JSK0
Also, this is not the first time that government bailed out a finance company because of detrimental effect that it would cause globally.
Long-Term Capital Management
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon…
- designbot0
Could you imagine if this bailout did pass, and then 5 years down the road they went bankrupt anyways? I think the chances are pretty high this would happen, unless they got EXTREMELY innovative.
- yes, I can and that is exactly what is going to happen...except it won't take 5 years.monkeyshine
- TheBlueOne0
"The wages are not even comparison. Its like saying complaining that shoes sales man makes less money then a designer. Different job and different educational value."
True as far as it goes - but if your going to bailout designers and shoe salesmen alike, wouldn't you expect a proportional level of concession from both in each respective industry? Or should designers just get the money with no demands, but shoe salesmen should be forced to work longer hours for less pay to get the money?
- whodovoodoo0
THEY DONE NEED NO MONEY, MAKE DEM BURN THE MONEY BURN THE MONEY
- JSK0
Yes, and the bank bailout has failed. Period. Credit did not and is not bout to loosen up.
- TheBlueOneOf course! It was designed to not work. Who in their right mind, pumps more money in to something that doesnt make money or system that doesnt work. It sure sounds good to boost the stock price or keep it from going to the bottom. It's just like that economic stimulus checks. Giving few hundred dollars to joe six pack do nothing.
And now they are printing money, and draining the dollar value.
- http://firedoglake.c…TheBlueOne
- I read the stimulus checks actually worked somewhat.Mimio
- Worked for me. I paid bills and didn't blow it like most schmucks.dMullins
- creez0
good less polution
- chossy0
Do American car manufacturers make small euro boxes?. Or just massive saloon estate cars etc.?..
- They make all of the above. Americans don't buy tiny boxes though. They drive trucks and whine about gas prices.Mimio
- hmmm shitting in your own nest likesey!!!.chossy
- Those aren't even available over here, teh small boxes made by ford, GM, etcharlequino
- you can crap all over trucks, but some people actually need them. careful w/generalizations.sputnik2
- drgss0
Die America, die
- What is your major malfunction?QBN
- being norwegian?janne76
- its my "thing"
i keep saying it in every crisis related thread
drgss - that's cause you're an asshole.anxiousarms
- http://www.codinghor…sputnik2
- that's "the america, the" in germanlinearch
- lol leinarch_niko
- DrBombay0
I think many of you people are forgetting about the millions of families that are going to be effected by this, in your fervor against the executives.
- Also consider that these companies failing will push our economy from bad to insanely badukit
- yup, but get your bloodsport on, I guess.DrBombay
- no, dobs. see my post. but this isn't going to prevent layoffs anyway. AND...its just buying a little time...and not much.monkeyshine
- people need to eat.DrBombay
- Oh sorry, I'm forgetting about the families with bloated salaries. My bad!dMullins