God is quite busy
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- lowimpakt0
you were taking the piss and nothing can be proven.
one existentialist crisis of a thread.
- Khurram0
Well done GeorgesII, it took you best part of a day and a half, but you managed to pull it off.
In fact, i may well self-amuse myself in this thread. Well done Georges, well done...
- Lillebo0
This could be fun
http://www.lionsgate.com/religul…
- Khurram0
I believe we are god. That "god" is not seperate from us. That we are god conciousness. Not just me and you, the world of humans. But the world of objects and the world of facts. The world of abstraction as well as the world of physics.
That what creates "seperateness" and indivduated destiny is the illusion. And in reality we are all one consciousness participating in one destiny. Destiny of "god", which WE create - or rather participate in.
Just like each neuron firing in your brain, as well as its velocity and acceleration, is the essence of what your perceive yourself to be you. God is the existence in time of the universe, consciousness that permeates the universe, and the world of human values is part of that consciousness, but not its object.
In other words, it's not a question of whether *i* have a soul. More, does God have a soul. And yes it does, and we are it.
In other words. *I* am GOD.
- Well, at least you're honest with yourself to some degree. Good luck with the whole self-worship thing.gramme
- Personally I think you make a shitty god. So do I, for that matter.gramme
- sorry my man. But there is no VALUE judgement in god essence.Khurram
- wtf? i cut this hunt, what's he donig in my notes?Khurram
- Where on earth do you get such an idea? Your imagination does not = Scripture, my friend.gramme
- idea of what? that there is no VALUE judgement? it's called philosophy... something a bit more robust than your..Khurram
- scraps of paper you call "scripture".Khurram
- who wrote this philosophy, pray tell? You?gramme
- scripture written and doctored by a ton of people who don't have the best intentions over hundreds of years serving a variety of political causes at their respective times versus khurram little speech. seems to me his is a little more honest if not just as kookyspifflink
- political causes at their respective times versus khurram little speech. seems to me his is a little more honest if not just as kookyspifflink
- as kookyspifflink
- If you study the original manuscripts and original languages, many of which are still accessible, you'll see there hasn't been any tampering.gramme
- hasn't been any tampering.gramme
- what?Khurram
- dude, philosophy is an intellectual pursuit. Yours is the veneration of an ancient artefact. Capice?Khurram
- GeorgesII0
LSD
- ukit0
Again, the question is - did God create everything, is he the original first cause of reality? If so, he must have created hell as well as heaven, it's not like these things came into being out of nowhere, right?
Since God basically designed the universe, I'm assuming he could have created a world where, free will or not, people didn't go to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity simply for not being Christian. You call your God "loving" but at the same time, you have to acknowledge he created this whole reality, where according to your own religion, the majority of mankind (since most people are not Christian) will be subject to this fate - including most non-white, non-Western cultures.
- gramme0
Hell did not exist from the beginning, it was created as a place for punishment. The best definition for hell is not the medieval, quaint picture of a lake of burning fire, but rather it is the complete absence of God's spirit—the only place where he is not present. God is aware of what goes on in hell, but he does not commune with the damned in any way. Hell is the bitterest loneliness and most excruciating pain that exists.
Originally, God created a perfect world, where Adam and Eve would be immortal, free from sin, never leaving this world but always communing directly—even physically speaking with God. There was no need for punishment because God's requirements for perfect righteousness and justice had not yet been violated.
ukit, I can't give you a clear reason why God allowed/allows evil to take place in the world. I can tell you that he, from the beginning, gave man the ability to choose good or evil. God did not want to create cosmic pawns. Adam and Eve abused this privilege by eating from the forbidden tree and then lying to God. By choosing to sin, a lack of perfection was introduced into the world. Evil, as I mentioned before, is primarily a lack of perfection. This is why all sin is equal in God's eyes, because all sin is a departure from perfection in some degree or another. If I've broken one of his commandments, I'm guilty of breaking all of them because I have introduced evil.
Sin is a hereditary spiritual illness. Adam and Eve passed it on to their children and so on. Ukit, it's worth noting that Adam and Eve were somewhere in the Middle East. They were not white people, nor were their offspring, who eventually moved outward from Mesopotamia and populated the earth, splitting off into genetically shifting groups that became the various races we have today. God's people were originally in the Middle East, rather than white people in Western cultures. It just so happens that in subsequent centuries, Christianity spread west more than in any other direction, which is why to this day you find so many Christians in Western countries... although, any missionary can tell you that Christians are found all over the world, and that the faith is growing most rapidly in oppressed places like China, India, etc.
God is loving, but he is just. He requires perfection. He knew that we could not attain perfection, and so he gave the Jews a promised Messiah to look forward to, and thus through faith guarantee their salvation; we who came after Christ can look back to the cross, where God the perfect Son took the punishment meant for us all.
How the hell, you might wonder, could one man, one death, pay for the sins of anyone who believes in him? Only because of who he was/is: God incarnate. Because God preceded all and created all, for God to die and accept our punishment means that no other sacrifice was needed.
So, again, why has this drama come to pass? Why not disallow evil from the beginning? All I know is that it all serves to glorify God somehow. I fully admit that it is a mystery. He has promised in his word that he will reveal all at the final day, that his full purpose will become clear to everyone past, present and future. I believe this will come to be, because God has not yet failed to deliver on any of his promises. Why should this promise be any different?
We judge people's character by their actions. From what I know of God's actions, he is good. Just and fair, but good. He is so good that he was willing to go to hell in our place. It doesn't get any better than that.
- Morning_star0
Which god are you talking about?
- gramme0
Jehovah, Yahweh, Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai, Eloi, The Holy Spirit, The Word, Yeshua M'Nzareth (Jesus of Nazareth). Many names, same triune God.
- Note that most of these names are either Hebrew or Aramaic. Not white person names like Christopher or Frank.gramme
- "God" is merely the old English word for "good".gramme
- You're wrong. God has nothing to do with the old english for 'good'.Morning_star
- mkay, so my friends with English majors and/or Master's of Divinity are wrong?gramme
- looks like it:
http://wahiduddin.ne…spifflink - That site is a load of horse shite, I'm surprised you think it's credible.gramme
- ignore0
John Frum is big on Vanuatu...coincidence????
- Morning_star0
Any room for Buddah, Apocatequil, Krishna, Isis, Atlas, Loki, Asherah...?
- teleos0
Most of the tired objections in this thread have been answered in this book (and several prior to this one): http://www.thereasonforgod.com/. The honest skeptic should read it and it's an easy read.
At the end of the day, every person in this thread has a faith-based worldview. The atheist most certainly does. He asserts that blind material a-telic processes produced everything. There is no evidence for this, it is faith-based and is a naked assertion. So we need to determine which faith-based worldview is most cogent.
When I look at life with all of it's functional complexity and machinery and specified information, I have to conclude that there is a cognizant and purposive designer. We have master programmers and PHD engineers who are baffled by the nanotechnology and programming code in a single cell and the cell is the foundation of all life. Life, at it's very core, screams design.
- no, most of the 'phd engineers' strongly refute the claim for design, as well you know, son.mikotondria3
- nonsense. Utter pish.teleos
- well teleos is here. there goes all intellectual honesty remaining in this thread (not a lot to begin with)spifflink
- Poisoning the well.
-1teleos
- gramme0
Buddha, Krishna, Allah, et al. are so fundamentally different in nature and character than God, that they cannot fathomably be one and the same. It's not a popular thing to say, but when you read Jesus' words in context—when he said "I am THE way, THE truth, THE life; no man comes to the Father but through me"—there's really no way around it. They don't call it the "straight and narrow" for nothing.
Because of the radical claims he made, Jesus is either who he said he was/is, or he is the biggest, cruelest charalatan to ever walk the earth. He can't be "just a prophet" or a "pretty good guy". He claimed in no uncertain terms to BE God. He was either right, or he was full of shit.
- Well, there is another option, which is that people inflated or distorted what Jesus said after his death.ukit
- lowimpakt0
gramme, have you ever questioned your faith or are you a born again?
- Morning_star0
...or there were several 'messiahs' who were amalgamated into one and used as icon to hang early christianity on.
You are also assuming that the Bible is true. And the heavily edited and several times 'improved' version we use to day has held the true and undistorted 'word'.
- ukit0
So China - where part of my family is from - has a population of 1.3 billion, of which only about 5% are Christian.
That leaves 1.2 billion who are doomed to burn in hell, according to your religion, unless they somehow realize during the course of their life they have to reject their culture and what they were taught growing up.
I don't see how that squares with the idea of a just, merciful God.
- they are a blib in the code. the rest of the billions of non-christians are bad design iterations...lowimpakt
- CuriousGeorge0
i recently just found god
- TheBlueOne0
"...every person in this thread has a faith-based worldview. '
Nope. Your delusion, not mine,
- dream on... if I widdle down far enough, I'll get to your faith-based assumptions.teleos
- Khurram0
i agree with teleos that atheism requires a leap of faith. Even Sartre, on a lecture on Kierkegaard, said that it requires as much of a "leap of faith" for us atheists to hold our position as it did for Kierkegaard to believe in the one god.
The real issue, however, is the vapid pages of the bible and man-made religions which are obviously pure unadulterated stupidity and nonsense.