spore vs jesus
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- unit70
heh, just being reading through that anti spore thread - As i fuckin love spore and will wright in general. (I remember him showing spore on TED years ago and thinking it was an amazing looking teaching tool for all age ranges to understand evolution, arguably one of the most important theories ever.) There are hundreds and hundreds of comments just laughing at the premise of this blog, i can't seem to find one that agrees with it! I am starting to think it must be a hoax, or even maybe a viral from EA /jk/ but maybe i am just underestimating the stupidity of creationists...
- TheBlueOne0
Can I evolve Jesus?
- if you are doing the "evolving" then go ahead and call it designing.teleos
- Llyod0
they should just have an end fight with some creationists
- zarkonite0
progressive creationist?!? define.
- Llyod0
I've evolved. My tail got turned around 180
- TheBlueOne0
@designbot re my phrase: "Jesus was far more violent than Hitler, speaking in the definition of passive, systemic violence"
I shall now explain my ignorance, as you say. But first remove the idea that violence has a moral value as purely negative.
There are two types of "violence" - subjective, immediate violence - the type we tend to think about when we hear the word "violence" - you know the application of force - punching, hitting, shooting, bombing, etc. And the threat of the immediate application of such. It is violence that has an obvious and immediate initiator subject - the mugger, the soldier, an army, a rioter.
then there is negative, systemic violence - violence in a system that is not immediate or applicable subjectively but exists objectively. The violence inherent in a system that keeps substinence farmers or factory workers in their positions, that keeps food away from starving people, etc. That is systemic violence. It effects individuals but doesn't come from a subjective place, but it is very real.
Jesus and christianity was very violent to the existing world order. It did not do so with subjective violence of course (although christianity embraces that later in it's development). Jesus and his message was an incredibly violent figure threatening to the Roman world order and it's Jewish client-state. That is why he was put to death, and he knew this. Now think of hiow much violence and disruption christianity caused the existing world at the time.
Now was this a positive change? Sure. But to the Romans, the threat of Jesus and christianity was to violently overhthrow their exisiting interests and civilization. Gahndi would be equally violent to British colonial rule. Both Gahndoi and Jesus wanted to overturn the social order - which in itself is a violent goal, although one may choose non-violent methods to achieve it, as they did.
Now, on the other hand Hitler utilized copious amount of subjective violence to basically reinforce an existing moral and value order.
For all the talk in this thread of "science", I mean one of the basics is "Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it." You want to change the trajectory of an exisiting society and you need to apply force. You need to change the underlying order. To one person that force is righteous and necessary, to another it is a violent upheaval to their world order.
- chrisRG0
let's try to explain why some (SOME) religious people act like that:
if someone tell you that the thing you've based your life on, was the biggest hoax ever (god), how would you react? and as time goes by, it seems clearly that there's no god out there, you just need to stop read the same book and start read some ones.
- teleos0
This game seems to be Creationism since the user is steering it. Maybe more like Theistic Evolution. ;)
- ukit0
progressive creationist=professional lunatic
- teleos0
Lets talk about evidence. What do we actually observe scientifically...
1. The cell, the core of life, is a nano-factory with millions of highly complex processes going on simultaneously. Transport shuttles, transcription, backup processes, the list goes on and on. And then there's DNA which is the most sophisticated program we've ever observed. PHD's in engineering and are baffled by the cell's machinery and code.
2. We have a fossil record which demonstrates a series of saltation events. Massive bursts of novel cell and biological novelty in very short periods of time {see the Cambrian Explosion]. Evolutionary timetables cannot account for this. We are also finding ancient aquatic creatures like urchins which have all of the unexpressed informmation for biped appendages: hands, fingers, etc... So what looked "simple" we are now finding is loaded with unexpressed complex information just waiting for it's trigger.
3. The cosmological constants have been fined tuned to support life on our planet. From our position in the galaxy and our perfect distance from the sun to the fine tuned tolerance that gravity is set at. Slightly more and we'd be crushed, slightly less and we'd fly off the planet.
4. Human consciousness and first person perspective. We are hard wired to ponder our existence. And neuroscience cannot reduce the mind to the physical apparatus of the brain. Information and propositions exists regardless of whether the physical brain does. Reductionism won't work here and the honest ones admit it.
These are just a few pieces of OBSERVABLE DATA. Check it out for yourself. And follow it where it leads.
- Your point (1) is filled with psuedo scientific babble...TheBlueOne
- (2) "evolutionary timetables can't account for this"? More babble. read Gould.TheBlueOne
- GOD OF THE GAPS? Seriously? How old are you?i_monk
- (3) That's called the anthropromorphic theory. Seriously look at the scale of the universe and run the odds. We got lucky.TheBlueOne
- (4) Indeed, nueroscience cannot reduce the "mind" to the brain. However, if I scoop out your brain....well...TheBlueOne
- (anthropic theory)Nairn
- not 'theory', principlespifflink
- balls.
:)Nairn - I love the AP - I've been invoking it for so much these days.Nairn
- Stylus0
EA is doing a pretty good job of shit canning the game without the help of Christian conservatives thanks to their DRM system. It's got 1 Star rating on Amazon!
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Mac/…
- tasty0
I dated a Super-Christian who only let me PIITB.
God was on my side for that one.
- morilla0
- link?Llyod
- http://www.leftbehin…
D_Dot - so can you shoot muslims and jews?Llyod
- i_monk0
Stylus - That's due to an anti-DRM flash mob, bombing Amazon with poor ratings. Read Slashdot more.
- I think that was his pointTheBlueOne
- yeah read it on Digg... good example of consumer activism I thinkStylus
- teleos0
Indeed, Jesus seems to have turned the world upside down. It's amazing to think that 12 simple men who fled for their lives at his crucifixion were willing to give their lives for the gospel message after witnessing his resurrection.
- Prove that happened.i_monk
- I can only show very convincing evidence. (as with most things)teleos
- It's bullshit. Bodily ascension to heaven my ass. Is Heaven "up"? It's laughable really.Mimio
- mimio - therein lies your core problem. Not digging deeper. "taken into the clouds" was metaphor...teleos
- which was used in describing how God's kingdom would come "on the clouds"teleos
- in other parts of scripture. Do a word study of the greek term: Perusia. It's fascinating.teleos
- hahahah, you're a fucking metaphor, mate.mikotondria3
- some amphibian gave his life in the sea to later evolve into jesus. on a retrospective id stick with a pharao or something more aestheticalerikjonsson
- Acts 1:9-12 (KJV)
"...while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight"Mimio - why would you single out this particular event as unreasonable? And where does it say heaven is "up"?teleos
- funny how the metaphors you like are 'the truth' and the metaphors you don't are 'just metaphors'...
unit7 - The Bible teaches that our hope is a physical hope. That earth will be heaven. See I Cor. 15teleos
- kind of like you read it selectively in order to justify your a prioi opinons, suprise suprise...unit7
- teleos - we agree on this.TheBlueOne
- again. cherry picking. who is giving you the authority to decide which is literal and what is allegorical?spifflink
- mikotondria30
fucking progressive creationist my ass...
Creationist entirely up to the point where cold hard facts reveal exactly the opposite of what you think you believe, then you just plaster what remains of your nebulous ideas into the remaining unanswered questions that are being explored by people with real intellect, loudly pointing out that science does not explain every tiny detail of what you believe the theories should encompass, only to pack up and move on when real evidence is produced that against disproves your non-theory.
- teleos0
I'd be interested in hearing what cold hard "facts" have revealed the opposite of what I think and believe. Especially when the evidence screams of purposive design through virtually all facets of biology and cosmology and physics. The data testifies of a creator.