Rate for Pitches
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- design_naked
Do you guys have a lower freelance design rate you charge for working with an agency that's putting together a pitch for a client?...or is your rate what it is regardless?
Looking for opinions and advice.
(Back story below..if you care)
I was asked earlier today (by a small marketing/web firm who farms out design work) to give a quick quote, based on extremely limited information, for a pitch to a highly notable client...easily a household name. I wrote up a quick quote, based on giving them 3 different comps (a home and sub per comp) and the range I gave them was based purely on my hourly times the amount of hours I estimated it would take me....absolutely ZERO additional monies in there for the level of client.
Now, I like this client I've done work for (the middle man client, not the big name end client) so don't get me wrong...not trying to bash them here at all.
But, anyway, gave them a really fair quote...even was told by a few industry colleagues that it was very low given the notoriety of the client...but, whatever, it was fair...I was quoting my hourly.
The middle-man client emails back and says that it is WAAAAAAAAAAY out of their range and that they don't want to even continue the conversation with me because it is so out of their range.
My quote was fair, I'm not questioning that AT ALL (I've been doing this too long to start to questioning my pricing)...just wondering what your thoughts are.
Thanks.
- brains0
Trying to get something cheap so they can take a large percentage of the price they charge the client.
- PonyBoy0
same rate...
... their pitch is still your normal work.
that's how I work at least... unless you have a bit of a heart-to-heart w/the agency and you've worked out special arrangements...
... but if it's a one-time deal etc... the purpose of the work shouldn't have anything to do w/your price - they're simply just buying your services.
- design_naked0
Thanks guys, that's exactly what I thought. Just needed to confirm.
- threadpost0
if you're freelance, same rate. if you're salary, sometimes agencies will give you less up front then give you a bonus upon winning. I think it varies from place to place. I suggest billing your normal rate.
You have to realize when the finance peeps are looking at bottom line and pitch work isnt billable, then basically you're out of pocket. They hate that. They want you billable 110% of the time.
- Fourpence0
If your reasonable, experience based rate is way out of their league for this job then they are looking for someone lower down the ladder than you to work with. Don't talk yourself back into the running by lowering your rates now, just accept the project is not for you and forget it. You'll permanently lower your fees with these people once they know you'll stoop for them.
When this happens to me I suspect the client (the mid-client) is playing who'll blink first with me so I tell them immediately I'm off the table and then I find some shitty dog on the internet and throw them the contact details. I say that I've heard good things about the person and that they're cheap (pick some clown off QBN maybe). Make sure its a real dog you pass on though. They'll come back to you with some more money really quick.
Mid-clients have usually already secured from their client about four times what they're hoping to pay you.
- Meeklo0
Yeah I agree with fourpence.
- boobs0
If you're strictly working on a pitch, and you think it's a quality project (and at the very least a substantial portfolio piece) with a good chance of success, you might want to back off your standard rate, if they will guarantee you a substantial retainer when they land the contract. I.e., cash advance when they sign the account.
- Yeah, there's that too. Its not mentioned, so I don't factor it in to my response above.Fourpence
- bogue0
Yeah pitches can go either way obviously. Sometimes the agency is being paid for the pitch, and sometimes not. By their adverse reaction I would say they might be doing this pitch for free and just looking to obtain some cheap help without having to swallow up too much cost.
- gramme0
I've always thought the very idea of pitches are patently absurd. Even if you are an agency pulling in multi-millions per year. Pitches are like going to three different dentists for a cleaning and then telling them you'll only pay the one who does the best job.
- "...Even if..." meaning even if you can afford to do all the work and possibly not get paid.gramme
- gramme0
I've seen agencies nearly go bankrupt after a series of unsuccessful pitches.
- formed0
If you really want the client in your portfolio, then I'd talk to them.
If they've paid you fairly in the past, you shouldn't worry too much about this setting a precedent, and if it does, then you say no.
It's a gamble. My largest client now I did something for free to get my foot in the door. Everyone loved the work, now I have them giving me all their business, referring several large projects, etc.
You have to weigh the pros/cons for yourself.
It is frustrating when you think "these guys can afford whatever" but then you think "but it would be a huge asset to have my name on something so highly promoted".
FYI - I never do anything for free that someone asks for, this example was an unsolicited piece.
- Vicentvangogh0
If you have a history of freelancing with a particular agency and they ask you to lower your rates a little bit for a pitch that is okay. However, if you have never done for the agency don't lower your rate.
- moldero0
if i know the client I might lower a price for a pitch, but other than that, same price.
- TREBIO0
i'd take a chance and offer them a reduced price with the clause being you get to do the work at you regular rate once they win the project. that way they don't get hit too much AND it give you incentive to do your best work. win-win if they win. it could lock you up with much more than you'd expect.
- roundabout0
I think the designer should get a bonus if the design is successful, that what a sale person would gets, so why not the designer.
- roundabout0
As for pitch design I never lower my price, I up it if anything. It's a business gamble and you have to have the ball to stand your ground. If you give any idea's to lowering your pay then the business will just take you for a mug. And people who say it would be great to have a client like that in there portfolio are just mugs to them self's.