A question of scruples
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- Corvo0
Look. It's really about you - not them. They don't know. I had this gig with architects (which sounds perfect), but as the project evolved I realised they were not in the same sync. I gradually lost interest, because I have this shitty inner workings that make me an alarmed and look-out person, and after a striking half-kneeling walk to their office begging for info, pictures, anything that could make me design better I got to know they didn't even used all the back-end stuff that I prepared for them while the site was being developed (like interactive reports, client-dedicated live forums, uploading CAD projects area, renderings, QT, etc...). It struck me hard, like "They don't really need this shit and have no clue how troublesome it is to make this work...". It happens that people that are not always aware of what a website can be - even if they are cool people. And new clients are always bad clients, because the idea that you first agreed with them never really got into their brain. They just don't know what you're talking about, and they cannot see the same opportunities you can see. Any new client, is a downward spiral. Either you can take that (I can't, really - but I'm a loser in that matter and I just lost my patience and I really cannot put up with this anymore) or you fight to get your stuff up and going. That's what you have to do. Fight to ground-logic your work.
- We always imagine the enemy knows as much as we do but the truth is only we know as much.capsize
- Llyod0
I would work on the project. But that's just me.
- Spookytim0
Corvo... I know that feeling well. My immediate client is cool in terms of creative understanding. They get what I'm doing and they are pro me. Its the end-client that needs this thing fed to him step by step which has caused the (non-meningitis) delays so far. When he saw what I'd done so far last Thursday before Easter, he was pleased and had no issues at all which was really encouraging. I just feel I'm hoodwinking myself into agreeing that we'll get it done when we wont.
Llyod... Thanks. I will probably do so too. Partly out of cowardice - not being able to stand up and stop this insane game of make-believe, partly out of dogged determination to not fail either myself or a client.
- MrOneHundred0
At the risk of whistling past your graveyard, you won’t get any work done if you’re dead. And no-one will die if this client doesn’t get their stuff on time. Business is business, but part of being a good business person is building in contingency plans. What if you were still in hospital? would they be at you bedside prodding your withering body with a stick to make sure you get the work done?
- My experience of clients is... Yes.Spookytim
- Yeah, mine too. Funny, that.MrOneHundred
- You guys got the same clients?al_la
- Corvo0
well then if it's a deadline issue (not sure I got it right) I can only think of 2 options. You say to that man:
1. It's not probably entirely impossible to skip the deadline, even if you are an unbelieving cunt-arse-fuck;
2. It's impossible to meet the deadline. But as you're such a cunt-arse-fuck and just because you're an unbelieving cunt-arse-fuck we'll frag ourselves to meet the deadline you fucking unbelieving idiot you shitty-cunt-cum-bucket. Repetition is good to make a point in this case.
- Corvo0
You could recruit me for your studio. I live by deadly poisoned errands, and I illustrate the same fangs that hangs you to the brim of the cliff of Philosophy itself - but that is also another question, and a leap of faith. Oh nevermind.
so if I got it right, you were in hospital - deadline is just... now - you still have your client but he doesn't believe you any more?
- Corvo0
Respond please. It's 3am here. I'm drinking champagne like a good tycoon, but I have to get up at 9.15am:
9.15/9.16 - fake cheerful rise to go to work - open windows;
9.17/9.20 - move to kitchen, prepare dog food. Open door to yard. Put awfully smelly dog-food as far from kitchen-door as possible;
9.21/9.28 - bathe, shave and plough teeth;
9.29/9.32 - put some clothes on;
9.33/9.34 - check if yesterday's socks are not that smelly;
9.35/9.37 - put new socks on and put on some boots (it's raining graciously);
9.38/9.39 - say goodbye to dog and "keep house" whilst putting a rain-coat;
9.40/9.50 - getting to work, 20 minutes late, which will be munched out of lunch-time, after doing a check-up in a silly database until 11 and sketching until 12.50.Life. SO BORING. All I can say is "I have one..." but that's not even close to what I really am.
- Plough teeth? Sounds like a problem there. Worse than mine, actually.AndyRoss
- "plough" seems right to me. You have to let grow some vegetables in the crevasses of speech to make any sense.Corvo
- It's like being one with nature itself - or a new knowledge of reality as Philip Larkin would sayCorvo
- not sure it was Philip Larkin who said that, but it was surely some dystopic creature such as himself.Corvo
- who did.Corvo
- univers0
Depends on the future you want with the client. First off out of professionalism, I would try to cater to their needs especially if they are paying a lot of money, and you know with out a doubt that you can develop a long relationship with this company. It takes a long time to develop something with a client to the point you can run and generate well conceived solutions for them in an efficient matter. However if they are failing to respect your lively hood, and you feel there is no future, I would still try to complete what you have, and refuse future service if you know this is not the sort of relationship you want.
- 7point340
have a sit down face to face with the client. kindly explain to them that you have an evil twin who is constantly soiling your reputation, and while this sounds like a stereotypical soap opera plotline assure them that this is in fact the gods honest truth. explain further that you are not a designer at all but rather a performance artist named 'sally jim.' you cannot allow their time and money to wasted any longer because evil tim will most certainly never deliver any product to their hands. if they question the images on 'your' portfolio just explain that this are just random images that evil tim swiped from ffffound, flickr and myspace. also be sure to note that your parents did in fact name your con artist brother 'evil tim' and that is his rightful birthname and that your parents were hippies and possessed an odd sense of humor. its somewhat poetic that he became the evil twin. laugh to yourself and rub a fake tear from your eye at this point for dramtic effect.
however now is the time where you would like to offer your services as an artist to attempt to make up for your brothers negligence. tell them you have experience in promotions and model yourself, though your methods may be a bit avant garde from what they are used to. tell them you came prepared to give them a demonstration of what sally jim can bring to their brand. whether they want to see it or not immediately jump on the table and drop your pants to your ankles exposing a purple tutu strap-on dildo and a black leather thong smeared with beanpaste. proceed to HONK and flail your arms wildly, all while thrusting your pelvis violently whipping beanpaste into the horrified clients' faces. stampede off from the table like a mad elephant hooting and HONKING....
...or you know, just buckle down and do the work. either or really, i'm sure its a toss-up
- johnnnnyh0
Spend less time on here and get on with the work. I don't mean that badly I just mean that there are times, even when you feel down and out, when you've just got to dig deep and get through it. Don't focus on the end result, focus on delivery. Most people won't have the same high standards for your own work as you have.
I too have way to much work on and am spending far too much time on here instead of clearing the decks. I wish I could take my own advice. Truth is you need to deliver what you can, deliver on time, but don't beat yourself up over it. Once it's done - get some rest.
- I only post here when I'm waiting for 4gb files to save, which take ten minutes and need to be saved often.Spookytim
- Spookytim0
Ah, I might have known it would be you reviving a thread I had finished with and wished to leave to die slowly and alone. Pah, now I've got to endure all the brits commenting that if I spent a bit less of my time on QBN and a bit more actually doing my work I might not be in this pickle. And then I'll have to explain how I once... waffle waffle waffle... Fade to grainy stock footage of a production line in a biscuit factory with light jazz glokenspeil soundtrack for ten minutes, then fade back... and that's when I decided to turn my back on design and be an illustrator. That was in 1956. Next question please....
- al_la0
Well, I truly believe that you should tell them to stfu and
wear red slacks with buckle shoes and a tutu.That's what I would do.
- Spookytim0
This Thread is now closed.
Thamk you for paticipating.
We will announce the lucky weiner shortly.
- Spookyhome0
I just thought I'd provide an update for those who offered their thoughts and opinions on this dilemma which I faced... The project was cancelled on Friday, much to my immense relief.
I read all the opinions and advice offered here with interest but the advice that really stuck out to me was that of Andy Ross. It wasn't the most politely worded or sympathetic, but it was honest and direct and confirmed the 'other voice' in my head that said "in spite of all valid concerns about this situation, you have committed to delivering a test piece now, so knuckle down and do it".
I did just that. The 'room' I created looked great, and the machinery I created to go in the room looked less than my personal best but easily sufficient as a working demonstration of the art directors concept, and great considering I had only three days to create it. Again, Andy Ross' advice pursuaded me to just push it out and stop being a perfectionist under such circumstances.
The end-client has commented that he loves the work I did for the test piece, but having seen the art director's concept, on the page, in full visual glory he restated his initial doubts about the concept being too complex, clever, and detracting from the presentation of product.
So he has asked me to provide an invoice for the balance on the test piece and has cancelled this elaborate campaign concept in favour of a more simplistic product shoot. Thank God because we just didn;t have enough time left to do it anymore... soemthing my client was reluctant to acknowledge.
I have to say that I am incredibly relieved about this. When I met my client's client it was abundantly obvious to me that he had huge reservations about the campaign concept proposal. That was an added pressure for me becuase I've known all along the guy just wanted to hire some models, shoot some product and stick a logo on there. My client however was determined to push ahead in the hope that he could swing the end-client round to his idea with the test piece I was preparing. I personally couldn't see this happening as it was the idea that the end-client didn't like, my style of work had already met with his approval.
I'm going to be paid in full for my test piece, and I am now free to get on with all the other things I have on my schedule for the next two months without having the horrible dread of a huge amount of work to do with not enough time left to acheive it.
Its so difficult when working alone to make the right decision about what to take on and what to pass up. At the point I agreed to get involved with this it all sounded like a done-deal - my client spoke very confidently that the concept was already signed off but in fact it was far from signed off. Then when I met the end-client I realised the art director was being way too optimistic. It was too late though, I was on board, and because of that I have had to pass up a major label music campaign, an ad campaign for Visa to run globally for six months, various pieces of editorial illustration, a logo/masthead design for a new magazine, and the chance to prepare and exhibit my large format drawings in a really ace gallery.
Ho hum, you take your chances. I'm just glad to be free of the nightmare.
Thanks for your opinions advice and input.
- I am really glad it turned out well for you. that must have been really stressful.al_la
- Hope you<re feeling better too
;c)al_la - It was stressful, but I have come out on top. If i had bailed out, I would be in a bad place now.Spookyhome
- Spookyhome0
Yeah sorry Creative, it was really only an update, out of courtesy, for anyone who contributed advice... I should have put a big "DON'T READ THIS" disclaimer across the top I suppose.
My Brain is okay but sporadically painful. I was strongly advised to do 'literally nothing at all' for about two weeks after being discharged from hospital. Because of this project I didn't do that I went straight back to work, so it hasn't healed. The Meningitis seems to have gone, but it inflames the protective membrane around your brain and the spinal tract/column/canal/fluidy-bit and without physical rest these can't heal properly, so I'm still suffering with pain because of that. Thanks for asking though.
7" of settled snow and counting here in Hove. Made my daughter's first ever snow man this morning. She waved at it and said "ha-ho nomans".
Hope you're well Creative.
- She didn't name it after a typeface? Have you not taught her anything?creative-
- creative-0
I'm good thanks, still a bit hungover from a weekend of bidet drinks. Just been looking at your site (again) very, very impressive. I also like your Haynes Manual mug.
And finally I've seen a picture of your chops on the light paintings page... no wonder you keep it hidden!