God's warriors
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- TheBlueOne0
blueONe: I have no interest in Christianity as "religion" or a set of traditions. My interest is in the life-transforming power of the person: Jesus Christ. The resurrection life which is the thrust of the New Covenant.
flagellum
(Aug 28 07, 07:45)Flag, I totally agree with your main point - i.e. that the only thing that interests me about Christianity is the person of Jesus and his example. For me - he presented a powerful ethical code and whose words I interpret differently than you do. I am certainly on the "losing" side from the Coucil of Nicea and other "heretics" (see Cathars, etc.). I believe Jesus is no more the "Son of God" than I am and I think his words can be interpreted as such and more powerfully so than thinking he meant that the whole thing was about him rising from the dead. To me that's a pagan tradition that got glossed onto christianity and mystical first century judaism and what makes me think all interpretations of Christ' message to be about "rising form the dead to live in heaven" to actually mean "rising from the dead and going to heaven" is comic book material and creates the set up for the creation of a "christian religion". I find it myopic that Christ' message of empowerment gets transmuted into "follow the priest/pastor/bible and go heaven and be happy with puppies forever." I firmly believe that Christ meant that the Kingdom of God is HERE NOW and can be enterred by changing one's life to live according to the principles he espoused. THAT'S powerful - and consequently whenever anyone tried to do that - himself included - they get waxed by the political power that be. All this mamby pamby christian (small "c") stuff about dieing and going to heaven is BS to control you, and that control has gotten subtler over time. Sure the Catholic Church can't lord it over people and Protestantism keeps getting broken down into smaller and smaller more radical bits just to stay on "comic book message point".
The last real Christian movement I accept was the Liberation Theology movement in Latin America..and what happen to those priests and nuns who extold their followers to live really like Christs example in the really real world? Bullets in the head.
Different century, same outcome.
- ********0
16.4 billion years ago, the Cellular Conscience Cycle begins. The big bang, our solar system, 250 million years of meteor bombardment. Action / reaction is formed.
820 million years ago, the Million Conscience Cycle begins, everything is still underwater. 315 MYA, life walks on land, pre triassic extinction happens. Stimulus response is born.
41 million years ago, the Familial Conscience Cycle begins. Monkeys, color vision installed in mammals. As well stimulus individual response.
2 million years ago, the Tribal Conscience Cycle begins. 800,000 years ago the discovery of fire is set in. The ice age happens, similarities and differences are distinguished.
100,000 years ago, is when the Cultural conscience Cycle (agriculture) started. The consciousness of art and the future took presence, where art became a form of communication.
30,000 years ago the Neanderthal went extinct because they couldn't adapt and predict a future, while Reasons began taking effect, with still no right or wrong.
3115 BC (Adam and Eve) Right and wrong are determined in the National Conscience Cycle. It's when we learn to read and write. Jesus dies, religion starts, Rome falls, Law is now set in.
1755 AD The Planetary Conscience Cycle begins, along with the industrial revolution, E.=mc2, hubble, and the internet. Power rules.
1999 The Galactic Conscience Cycle begins, starting with Y2K. And the idea that our civilization as we know it could shut off at a moments notice and we would be at the mercy of our own technology. Ethics speaks up, not who's right, but what's right.
2011 The Universal Conscience Cycle begins. The pathway to co-creation. A new charge of energy.
In my mind there are two types of people that appreciate 16.4 billions years of:
1. On a perfect path
2. Happy accidents
- flagellum0
[1] the fulfillment of messianic prophecy,
[2] the performance of miracles, and ultimately
[3] and most succinctly through His historically verifiable resurrection from the dead.
- flagellum0
[1] the fulfillment of messianic prophecy,
[2] the performance of miracles, and ultimately
[3] and most succinctly through His historically verifiable resurrection from the dead.
- gramme0
well.
the bible is a good book,
but all stories in there are parabels and should be understood in a different way..jezus didn't heal the blind, the 'blind' were the non believers and he converted him.
lazarus didn't raise from the dead, but his faith did...i was raised very catholic, but from an early age i already got that.
tank
(Aug 28 07, 07:43)See, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you really read the Bible carefully, Old and New Testaments, it's clear that Jesus is either who he claimed to be ("I am the way, the truth, the life; no man comes to the Father but through me"), or he's a raving lunatic with false, grandiose aspirations, or he is a charlatan and a liar.
You can't cherry pick from Biblical stories you like, or believe only part of what Jesus said, and still be intellectually and emotionally honest with yourself. It either all works together or it doesn't work at all. Tank, there is no premise for a metaphorical reading of events like healing of the blind and the raising of Lazarus from the dead. These things are a cakewalk for the entity who created at least one universe. Sure, Jesus spoke in parables, but these were obvious, usually starting with something like "...And Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying..."
If one only believes part of Jesus' schtick, then what is to be done with his claim that he is THE way, THE truth, THE life? He didn't say "I am A way, A truth, A life." There are many other similar claims, and if we say that the Bible is a good book, and that Jesus was a good man, but that the Bible can't be taken as gospel and that Jesus did not actually pay the price for all of man's wrongdoing, then we are setting ourselves up as the authors of truth. I sure as hell don't trust any of you or myself that much.
- flagellum0
blueOne: The moral and ethical lessons that Christ exemplified are important, but the polarizing thing about Jesus is his claim to be deity and savior. He tells us that our hearts shot through with sin and there is nothing we can do to change that. But that God has sent a propitiation in the person of Jesus. That if we simply accept his sacrifice, in faith, we are redeemed. Permanently. I believe the miracles he performed and the immutable fact of the resurrection, demonstrate that he is who he said he was. My life has been changed by this truth and so have countless others'. He still transforms hearts and lives today, but forgiving and saving us.
- incog0
lemmy - Slavery at the time the bible was written was immensely different from American slavery. You speak from ignorance and use shock tactics.
tank - try reading the Apocrypha.
Brookoioioi - the all powerful creator mustered much more than hints. However, the hints do explain his actions.
- flagellum0
I don't need a set of good moral precepts. I need heart surgery. I need my spiritual death replaced with new life. This only comes thru a relationship with the person of Jesus. Not thru some set of religious rituals.
- Mimio0
Doesn't matter if it was "immensely different" as you claim. It's still the matter of one person legally owning another. If morals are supposed to be absolute then why is it morally rephrensible today?
- CALLES0
one of my favorite shirt!
- TheBlueOne0
Slavery as a condition of the human species is as old as civilization and is still with us today. Just because you live in the West you're blind to it.
- Mimio0
That doesn't make it a moral act. So why would the creator of the universe condone and regulate it's practice? Why not just outlaw it like eating pork?
- incog0
American slavery was morally reprehensible. The idea of one person owning another is so contrary to and ingrained in American (and originally Greek, right?) thought that we forget other cultures have existed in history outside this context. One such culture, is the ancient culture prevalent at the time the Old Testament was written. The ideas of human rights and individual freedom weren't really around then. If anything, Biblical concepts on slavery were progressive merely in suggesting that slaves and masters treat each other well.
- mrdobolina0
you people have an excuse for fucking everything.
slavery was awesome back then, Yeah. Hebrew slaves weren't whipped by the egyptians, they wanted to lug 10,000 pound rocks to build the pyramids and fucking die.
gimme a break.
- flagellum0
lol! mrdobolina is talking about egyptian slavery! You are a gem.
Should God have intervened in every cultural and tradition and stopped every murder, rape, etc... etc... ? Where would true freewill fit into such a scheme? Do tell.
- incog0
hehe.
Well, to put it more succinctly, the writings in the Bible suggest masters treat slaves well. This was progressive.
And mrdob - treating them well would definitely mean not whipping, torturing, raping, etc.
Although, the Bible was not written for or in the Egyptian culture. We're talking Judaism here, bub.
- mrdobolina0
it doesnt matter, they were slaves. you people will believe anything.
- TheBlueOne0
All slavery is reprehensible, at least to my Enlightenment values...
And their are up to 4 million human beings living in slavery right now on our little planet. RIGHT. NOW.
http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/t…
Slavery is nothing we as a species have conquered. But I don't hear as much about this issue as I do the huge amounts of frenzy whipped up about the "gay" or "evolution".
Just sayin'.
- Jaline0
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