No Evolution No Way
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- flagellum0
no it wouldn't because mrdobs wouldn't cite actual data, gabriel. And there are scores of other articles which demonstrates the religion kills canard. I chose to list one. Deal with the data. Again... ad hominem.
- version30
then to use it as part of an insult was just...
- Seff0
save it
- M0NEYCIDE0
just read it thanks and that was basically my arguement
- mrdobolina0
give it a rest.
- gabriel20
yes, it would because that was not an unbiased list of facts. It's an article written to further an idea held by the author.
- flagellum0
utter nonsense.
- version30
;) i was just saying...
*puts in pocket for later
- mrdobolina0
The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular fanaticism. The best example of religious persecution in America is the Salem witch trials. How many people were killed in those trials? Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event still haunts the liberal imagination.
THE LIBERAL IMAGINATION?
No agenda or POV expressed in that article, just cold hard facts, right?
- Brookoioioi0
yes, it would because that was not an unbiased list of facts. It's an article written to further an idea held by the author.
gabriel2
(Jan 10 07, 12:54)The same goes for all creationist literature, thats why its so easily dismissed.
- flagellum0
mrdobs: since you're not wearing your critical thinking cap again. I'll help you by listing some of the key points of the article:
- The best example of religious persecution in America is the Salem witch trials. How many people were killed in those trials? Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25.
- It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures rail against the misdeeds of the Crusaders and Inquisitors more than 500 years ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish Inquisition appears to be about 10,000. Some historians contend that an additional 100,000 died in jail due to malnutrition or illness.
- In the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
- Moreover, many of the conflicts that are counted as "religious wars" were not fought over religion. They were mainly fought over rival claims to territory and power. Can the wars between England and France be called religious wars because the English were Protestants and the French were Catholics? Hardly.
- In other words, while the Tigers see themselves as combatants in a secular political struggle, Harris detects a religious motive because these people happen to be Hindu and surely there must be some underlying religious craziness that explains their fanaticism.
- In particular, the moral teachings of Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a stern rebuke to - the historical injustices perpetrated in the name of Christianity.
- Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades.
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Now, just for giggles, look what atheist Pol Pot did alone:
- Mimio0
I fail to see how state religions or ideologies don't fall under the irrational faith category, that's what they are. Also, anyone who calaims Nazism was atheistic hasn't read a single Hitler speech or writing.
- mrdobolina0
http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeche…
care to try again?
- flagellum0
The same goes for all creationist literature, thats why its so easily dismissed.
Brookoioioi
(Jan 10 07, 13:01)And the ad hominems keep-a-comin. *yawn
Yes, so easily dismissed that Darwinists in their frenzied terror keep writing paper after paper and book after book trying to address the arguments.
It's notable that brookoioi lumps any finding which implies design as "creationist literature". Keep up the good work, you are why science will prevail over your materialistic ideology. People like you and Dawkins are the best thing that could ever happen to ID, etc...
By the way, creationists don't care much for ID'ists and want to distance themselves from them. Also, most the ID proponents I know are agnostics. So, factor that into your nice neat little equation.
- M0NEYCIDE0
any religious persection still comes from, social, political hystaria and chaos i wouldn't lump their excuses or rhetoric in the realm of the reality of organzied religion, and i'd argue the basic goodness of religion
- flagellum0
sure, mrdobs. First, we are not talking about Hitler only. Secondly, anyone knows that Hitler gave lip service to Christianity.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obido…
That book will get you all the facts.
- mrdobolina0
oh dear.
- TheBlueOne0
Everything I needed to know about ethics and the fickleness of gods I learned from the Samurai:
"You cannot tell whether a person is good or bad by his vicissitudes in life. Good and bad fortune are matters of fate. Good and bad actions are Man's Way. Retribution of good and evil is taught simply as a moral lesson."
"Though it may be said that the gods dislike impurity, if one thinks a bit, he will see that he has not been negligent in his daily worship. Thus, one's previous faithfulness has been exactly for the sake of praying for good fortune in such times as when one is barbed in blood and climbing over the dead. At such a time, if it is a god that turns back when one is defiled, then one should know clearly that praying is ineffective and should worship regardless of defilement."
"Covetousness, anger and foolishness are things to sort out well. When bad things happen in the world, if you look at them comparatively, they are not unrelated to these three things. Looking comparatively at the good things, you will see that they are not excluded from wisdom, humanity and bravery ."
- Hagakure
Christianity, as practiced by American evangelicals, bores me with it's simplistic worldview. Kills the human spirit. At least the Jesuits made it interesting. Heck, wasn't it Luther who said "Sin bravely to invoke the mercy of God." Give me some christianity with some intellectual balls at least. Jesus was no lightweight in the brains department..
- flagellum0
The argument was that the evils of materialistic regimes outweigh those of religious conflict.
So, if the reasoning is that religion is always wrong or bad because of past evils of it's alleged proponents, then we have to conclude the same thing about atheism/materialism.